Instructor said this

As to - guns in my own collection - I agree with your instructors comments on CZ and Ruger....

....but that doesn't mean that someone who prefers the CZ's or the Rugers is wrong....or that I'm right....everyone should buy and shoot whatever they like - and whatever fits their hands the best. There are a lot of reasons why I don't personally care for CZ's or Ruger revolvers in general...fit, finish, triggers, etc...

I'm not a certified instructor....but I "help out" in some general safety - new shooter classes from time to time / and I hear questions like this a lot ( what about this mfg, this other mfg, my buddy says buy this .....) ....../ and I don't ignore the question - especially if they ask what I'm shooting -- but I typically tell them that most any of the big name mfg's make pretty nice guns / but it comes down to what fits their hands, what controls they like, how the trigger breaks and resets, size of grip, etc....

I also try to tell them to not get wrapped up in what they're buddies are doing - or what I shoot - instead rent and shoot as many guns as they can before they buy ...( test drive them !! ) ....they can relate to that in vehicles...and see what suits them, figure out the differences, etc
 
Does .40 caliber bullet has more stability compared to 9mm?
What is your opinion about Glock 22?
How do I find my fit? I mean after shooting how many bullets on average with each gun can someone say that this gun is for them?
 
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Bullet stability ?? ....in my opinion, its more about velocity and bullet shape than caliber.../ but 9mm and .40S&W are both very stable / and will fire accurately. There are other issues on whether ( in tactical shooting - does caliber matter / or is it about shot placement ...??) Personally I think shot placement is a bigger deal than caliber or bullet weight ...sometimes I'll carry a 9mm or a .40S&W...but personally I'm a 1911 guy ( in either 9mm or .45 acp ) ...and I carry a 1911 in .45 acp.

Glock 22.../ I don't care for them personally ...grip angle, trigger how it breaks and resets, length of pull, feel of gun, etc....but Glock makes a solid gun.

Fit...a couple of things:
a. can you reach all the controls on gun without moving your grip ( reach mag release, safety, decocker, etc)....
b. is grip so big ( especially in double stack guns ) that in reloading the gun tends to get loose in your hand....
c. does your grip remain solid during rapid fire ....4 shots in 2 seconds ....or does it move around a lot / it might move if its too small or too large....
d. grip angle...when you come up from low ready...is it on target and level ...or do you need to cant your wrist one way or the other to level it out ...and how does it compare to other models, other mfg's...

and while "Fit" is critical - pick a gun on lots of other stuff too ...sights, how trigger breaks, how it resets, overall length or sight plane and weight .....alloy frame, poly frame, stainless frame...

a good instructor should walk you thru all this stuff....
 
BigJimP - a good instructor should walk you thru all this stuff....
My instructor did not do any of this. I asked him help me find a gun that fits my hand and all he said was to try as many as I can. I wanted to narrow down the choices that is why I asked him.
 
makes sense....

One other thing....make sure you have fun with the process of finding this gun for yourself !! ....some guys get really stressed over this...and jump on something right away ....don't do that..

.....make some friends at your local range...talk to a lot of guys / ask them what they're shooting, why they bought it, would they buy it again...
 
In case he didn't cover the caliber issue either...a couple of notes.../ and some of this may affect your final selection of a gun...and capacity...

Recoil - is a function primarily of :
1. weight of the gun
2. velocity of the bullet
3. weight of the bullet...
( so heavier guns have less recoil, slower velocities mean less recoil, heavier bullets mean more recoil...) ...but in many calibers, especially if you're buying retail ammo, lighter bullets are usually faster...so a commercial load in 115 gr 9mm might feel more "snappy" than a 124gr 9mm round....

9mm vs .40 S&W .....9mm will cost you less per box / so you'll probably practice more...( $ 15 a box for 9mm in my area / about $ 20 a box for .40)

.40S&W in general...is a little "snappier" especially in 165 gr or 180gr bullets.... / especially in a light poly frame gun...

Most all mfg's make guns in 9mm, .40S&W and .45 acp .... .380 and .357 Sig ...have a lot as well...but the mainstream calibers are 9mm, .40S&W and .45 acp ....( and a lot of platforms like 1911's ...will come in all 3 calibers....especially 9mm and .45 acp )....
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Personally, I practice a lot with a 1911 in 9mm ( 10 + 1 rds per mag) ( my reloads are about $ 7 a box / way less recoil, doesn't beat my hands up ) ...

....and I carry an identical 1911 in .45 acp ( 8 +1 rds per mag 230gr HP)....( I shoot a couple of boxes a week in .45 acp ) ....and 7 or 8 boxes a week in 9mm..../ .....but once in a while, I might carry a 4", alloy frame 1911, in 9mm as well ( 9 + 1 rds per mag 147gr HP.../ or something like a Sig 239 (single stack ) ...in .40S&W ( 7 + 1 rds per mag 180gr HP ) or a Sig 239 in 9mm ( 8 + 1 rds 147gr ...)..../ its about shot placement, guns that fit my hands, capacity is irrelevant in my mind ...its not a gunfight at the OK Corral...it'll be over in a couple of minutes...and probably under 5 shots fired / but I have over 20 yrs of carry experience and have been shooting handguns for at least 50 yrs..../ its just what works for me....and how I look at it..../ its only one perspective.

Good luck with the process !

and once in a great while, I will carry a K frame S&W revolver ( 6 rds ) ....357 mag ( 158 gr HP )...model 66 or 19 in a 4" barrel
 
I think an ethical instructor should make it clear when he is expounding upon his own personal preferences
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That would be nice. It really would.

Unfortunately, it's all too often not the case. A few months back, I had a customer looking for a home-defense gun. She had problems with heavy guns and was averse to recoil. So, she wanted a pistol-grip 12ga pump.

I mentioned that there might be better options, but she was insistent. After all, her instructor told her that was what she needed. She'd been told the sound of the action cycling would be enough to frighten any burglar into instant submission. Also, if she shot someone on her front lawn, she should drag the body into her house.

...and where did she get this sage advice? A hunter safety course. Hm. As it turns out, they talk all kinds of foolishness in those.

It's not hard to get instructor creds, and the field tends to attract some real winners at times.
 
@CharlesSC- Im glad you went to a coarse. The main things to walk away from that with are the safety points. As others said, there are plenty of opinions on firearms, the instructor gave you his. I would recommend you get yourself a 22 handgun and practice as often as possible. Have fun and enjoy the sport. If money is not much of a concern than buy your SD weapon at the same time and practice with it also. I dont carry as many of the guys on the board do so I would never consider a plastic gun (Glock, Springfield XD, S&W M&P, etc...)but that doesnt make them bad weapons. Find one that fits your hand well and tends to be on target when you raise your hand to aim. IMO heavier guns tend to be easier to shoot accurately.
 
Lots of ranges have loaners and rentals so you can try out a variety.

Tom Servo - was the lady's instructor Joe Biden?
 
Folks ask me all of the time which are the best guns to shoot.
I normally tell them to go to a range and rent a bunch of different ones.
I always tell them to get a safe gun, and one that fits them the best.
Everybody likes something different, and all people are built differently.
Get the one that fits you best.
A $2000 1911 might not fit you as well as an $800 1911.
I will shoot my Springfield Range Officer 1911 just as well or better than a top tier $2500 1911 using my Precision Black Bullet reloads. Again, everyone likes different guns.

I will stay away from suggesting any brand of guns, except to state quality of certain brands.
To me, for quality, Sig is at the top. Hands down. No secret on that one.
I have a bunch of different pistols and I have always been happy to let the people that I am working with try out any pistol that they may want to shoot.

As an Instructor if feel that it is my duty to first, teach safety and responsibility. Then how to shoot accurately. Anything else is just opinions which I try to stay away from.


Eric
 
I have never owned a CZ but I would not hesitate to get one…

One has not caught my eye

I Love Ruger Revolvers and think they are very strong…Cause They Are Very Strong

I have 2 S&W J frames which are nice

So As far as the revolvers it is a toss-up Whichever you like

Snake
 
Charles,
What are you referring to when you ask about "more stability" between 9mm & .40?

There's no way anybody can tell you at what round count or at what point you can determine if a given gun is a good fit in your hand.
You just try a few, if possible, and go on from there.

In your case, the 9mm would be easier for you to learn with than most .40s.

And, you may be expecting too much from your instructor in thinking he'd have the time to babysit you through several types of autos & revolvers to help you choose one.

Visit a gunshop, heft as many different handguns in your preferred size as they'll let you, see how each fits in your hand.
When you find two or three that feel comfortable, ask questions about function. I'd recommend you start with the simplest one to run that fits your hand well, and then decide on caliber.

The Glocks are affordable & if the company has fixed the recent 4th Gen ejection problems they're usually very reliable.
I'd suggest a 9mm over a .40.

As mentioned above, the .40 is snappier than the 9mm. A .45 ACP pistol is not the best caliber to learn on.
Don't even think about a 10mm at this stage.
A .357 has notable muzzle blast & intimidating recoil for many.
A .38 is usually quite tolerable for most.

And so on.
Denis
 
After all, her instructor told her that was what she needed. She'd been told the sound of the action cycling would be enough to frighten any burglar into instant submission. Also, if she shot someone on her front lawn, she should drag the body into her house.
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I cannot believe an instructor told her to basically murder and tamper with evidence. And forensics people will notice the blood specks, drag marks, shot angle, distance, etc...

Now cycling a shotgun may cause them to run off if they are not insane or on PCP but one cannot guarantee that..

But 12 gauge cruiser? Let her shoot one and I bet she re-thinks.

I have found the best way to make recommendations to students is to let them shoot the weapon they 'think' they want at a rental. That tends to help them make good decisions.

Deaf
 
Does .40 caliber bullet has more stability compared to 9mm?
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charlesc, who mentioned to you about 'more stability compared to 9mm'. I have in my 40+ years of shooting never heard of that!

The .40 is a good round, the 9mm is a good round. If the cartridge and gun combination fits your hand, is easy for you to control, and you can carry it often, then that is the way to go.

Don't worry about 9mm .vs..40 .vs 45 etc... arguments.

Shot placement is king, and to get that you need a gun that fits you well and you learn to control the trigger.

What is your opinion about Glock 22?
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Excellent gun. I have the Glock 31 (and 32 and 33) in .357 Sig and they are pretty much the same guns except for a smaller bullet at a bit more speed.

All Glocks are good, and 99.99 percent of the time they are good right out of the box.

How do I find my fit? I mean after shooting how many bullets on average with each gun can someone say that this gun is for them?
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Ok, go to a shooting range that rents guns.

First at the counter see if you can handle all of them!

When gripping the gun does your hand fully wrap around the grip so the tips of the fingers are well around the grip?

Does the trigger finger easily sit on the trigger so the pad of the end of the finger sits squarely on the trigger?

Can you reach the magazine release without undue shifting of the hand?

Extending the gun to full extension of the arm does the sights come up right in alignment?

At full extension does the slide (or barrel if a revolver) align with the bones in your forearm?

Once you find a few guns that do all that take them out and shoot them.

See which one gives the best groups SLOW FIRE.

Let the trigger surprise you. Gently squeeze with the sights aligned. 1/2 breath.

Once you find the best one that fits you then worry about the power of the round (but don't worry to much!)

Deaf
 
Thanks for so many good replies.
One poster said glocks are good if the company has fixed 4th generation problems.
My question is what problems are/were those?
have they been fixed?
how often do glocks require cleaning?
can you please suggest good beginner books on pistols - books that tell you how to load/unload basic things like that, you know I would need to practice those skills.
Thanks
 
4th Gen Glocks were displaying a propensity to eject brass straight into shooters' faces.
I have not followed it lately, but for a while earlier this year it was a regular topic on a well-known Glock forum.
Multiple "home" remedies were tried using different parts combinations, I won't go into those since you'd have no idea what I was talking about.
Some helped, some did not.

Glock was getting many pistols back to correct the problem, many were returned to their owners without it being fixed.
The problem typically didn't manifest till around 800-1000 rounds were fired.
It was not an ammo problem, it was not shooter error.

It was not confined to one caliber or to one model.
I don't know if it has been rectified by Glock.

There is no specific round count at which a Glock should be cleaned.
Many clean their guns (of any brand) after each shooting session.
Many don't.

If you use a Glock strictly as a range toy, it can go several hundred rounds without cleaning it, depending on what you shoot through it.
If you plan to carry it for defensive purposes, it'd be wise not to push it too far or wait till function is impaired before cleaning it.

You should have learned how to load and unload handguns at the course you took. That's extremely basic, and if your instructor didn't teach you how to load them you should ask for your money back & find another one who will.

And- please address your question on stability between the 9mm & the .40.
What were you referring to, what were you told, and what's your understanding of "stability"?
Denis
 
Charlesc said:
can you please suggest good beginner books on pistols - books that tell you how to load/unload basic things like that, you know I would need to practice those skills.
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The instruction manual that comes with every new handgun will explain how to load it, and probably also covers how to UNload it safely and how to "field strip" (partially disassemble) it for cleaning. That's really all you need to know for basic ownership and practice. You don't ever need to go beyond basic field stripping unless you decide that you are ready to start doing your own gunsmithing.

If you buy a used handgun that doesn't have the manual, often you can find them in .PDF format on the Internet, and many manufacturers will send you an owner's manual for free even though you're not the original owner.
 
This is a good general book ....

http://www.amazon.com/Digest-Book-Combat-Handgunnery-Edition/dp/0896895254/ref=pd_sim_b_5

I recommend it to a lot of people.
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Cleaning guns is part of the hobby....I clean every gun, every time I shoot it....its not a contest to see how dirty you can get them and still make them run ....they're tools, and like all tools, if you take care of them - and maintaining them is part of it - they'll last a long time...
 
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