Innocent people placed on watch list?

Odd-Job

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Marshals: Innocent People Placed On 'Watch List' To Meet Quota
Marshals Say They Must File One Surveillance Detection Report, Or SDR, Per Month

DenverChannel | July 21, 2006

DENVER -- You could be on a secret government database or watch list for simply taking a picture on an airplane. Some federal air marshals say they're reporting your actions to meet a quota, even though some top officials deny it.

The air marshals, whose identities are being concealed, told 7NEWS that they're required to submit at least one report a month. If they don't, there's no raise, no bonus, no awards and no special assignments.

"Innocent passengers are being entered into an international intelligence database as suspicious persons, acting in a suspicious manner on an aircraft ... and they did nothing wrong," said one federal air marshal.

These unknowing passengers who are doing nothing wrong are landing in a secret government document called a Surveillance Detection Report, or SDR. Air marshals told 7NEWS that managers in Las Vegas created and continue to maintain this potentially dangerous quota system.

"Do these reports have real life impacts on the people who are identified as potential terrorists?" 7NEWS Investigator Tony Kovaleski asked.

"Absolutely," a federal air marshal replied.

7NEWS obtained an internal Homeland Security document defining an SDR as a report designed to identify terrorist surveillance activity.

"When you see a decision like this, for these reports, who loses here?" Kovaleski asked.

"The people we're supposed to protect -- the American public," an air marshal said.

What kind of impact would it have for a flying individual to be named in an SDR?

"That could have serious impact ... They could be placed on a watch list. They could wind up on databases that identify them as potential terrorists or a threat to an aircraft. It could be very serious," said Don Strange, a former agent in charge of air marshals in Atlanta. He lost his job attempting to change policies inside the agency.

That's why several air marshals object to a July 2004 memo from top management in the Las Vegas office, a memo that reminded air marshals of the SDR requirement.

The body of the memo said, "Each federal air marshal is now expected to generate at least one SDR per month."

"Does that memo read to you that Federal Air Marshal headquarters has set a quota on these reports?" Kovaleski asked.

"Absolutely, no doubt," an air marshal replied.

A second management memo, also dated July 2004, said, "There may come an occasion when you just don't see anything out of the ordinary for a month at a time, but I'm sure that if you are looking for it, you'll see something."

Another federal air marshal said that not only is there a quota in Las Vegas for SDRs, but that "it directly reflects on (their) performance evaluations" and on how much money they make.

The director of the Air Marshal Service, Dana Brown, declined 7NEWS' request for an interview on the quota system. But the agency points to a memo from August 2004 that said there is not a quota for submitting SDRs and which goes on to say, "I do not expect reports that are inaccurate or frivolous."

But, Las Vegas-based air marshals say the quota system remains in force, now more than two years after managers sent the original memos, and that it's a mandate from management that impacts annual raises, bonuses, awards and special assignments.

"To meet this quota, to get their raises, do you think federal air marshals in Las Vegas are making some of this stuff up?" Kovaleski asked.

"I know they are. It's a joke," an air marshal replied.

"Have marshals in the Las Vegas office, I don't want to say fabricated, but 'created' reports?" Kovaleski asked.

"Creative writing -- stretching a long ways the truth, yes," an air marshal replied.

One example, according to air marshals, occurred on one flight leaving Las Vegas, when an unknowing passenger, most likely a tourist, was identified in an SDR for doing nothing more than taking a photo of the Las Vegas skyline as his plane rolled down the runway.

"You're saying that was not an accurate portrayal of a potential terrorist activity?" Kovaleski asked.

"No, it was not," an air marshal said.

"It was a marshal trying to meet a quota ..." Kovaleski said.

"Yes, he was," the air marshal replied.

Strange said he didn't have a quota in the Atlanta office when he was in charge.

"I would never have done that ... You are going to have people reporting every suspicious looking activity they come across, whether they in their heart feel like it's a threat, just to meet the quota," Strange said.

Strange and other air marshals said the quota allows the government to fill a database with bad information.

A Las Vegas air marshal said he didn't write an SDR every month for exactly that reason.

"Well, it's intelligence information, and like any system, if you put garbage in, you get garbage out," the air marshal said.

"I would like to see an investigation -- a real investigation conducted into the ways things are done here," the air marshal in Las Vegas said.

Although the agency strongly denies any presence of a quota system, Las Vegas-based air marshals have produced documents that show their performance review is directly linked to producing SDRs.
 
So they have to file a report, paper work, once a month?

Regardless of if they did anything worth noting.
Boy, must be hard working for the government.......
 
If this is true, looks like the Air marshals are trying to challenge the ATF for First Place of "who can do more stupid crap". Again, if this is true, and I would like to see more information on this.

Doing something wrong, and doing it anyway, knowing its wrong, ticks me off.
 
I'll see if I can talk to someone about this, someone who would know for certain. It may take me a month or so, but I'll contact him.
 
Air Marshall's

Like the ATF one must justify one's budget. no reports = no work = smaller budget. simple mathematical equation. all politics aside... it is a total shame that the air marshall's them selves put in false reports just to get a raise or a promotion. screw the people you are supposed to protect to further yourself. oh wait that is the american way:rolleyes: :barf:
 
The simple truth is that there are not millions of "terrorists" just wandering the streets trying to get onto planes with nail clippers.

But that's what the government wants you to think. So where there is no problem, government needs to manufacture one. Such is the nature of Leviathan.

So they "catch" terrorists.......like people with gunpowder in their shoe (or the teenagers in Canada)...and claim that their traps worked and that they saved the world.

If placing innocent people on watch lists will justify continuing the destruction of natural rights, then any tyrannical government including ours will do it without hesitation or a second thought. If it meant framing innocent people, they would do that too. If it meant killing innocent people, yes, you guessed it.

If you don't agree, go read the Lemnitzer (Chairman, Joint Chiefs under Eisenhower) memo that came out right before Kennedy took office. It documents military plans to kill commit terrorist attacks on Americans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. It was signed off on by every member of the Joint Chiefs, some of the cabinet, and Eisenhower, the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. The only person that stopped it from taking effect was the newly-appointed Macnamara who told Lemnitzer that he had gone too far.

And people think 9/11 wasn't an inside job. Ha.
 
The air marshals, whose identities are being concealed, told 7NEWS that they're required to submit at least one report a month. If they don't, there's no raise, no bonus, no awards and no special assignments.
Reminds me of my retardo roommate, who complains about never being able to use sick days or he won't get the bonus his employer provides to those who don't use any sick days.

Both that and this thing with the air marshalls sound like something devised with the intention of not every marshall recieving such a bonus. They might call it a 'quota', but its probably not the case.
 
I feel so much safer knowing my freedoms are fleeting...

Good-bye Constitution you will be missed. So where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?:(


Won't be long till we see one of these goons patrolling our streets to keep us "safe" from ourselves right?


Epyon
 

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Big deal - if the people are really "innocent" they have nothing to worry about. And really - how many "innocent" people are there? Dig deep enough on anyone and I'm sure they have violated a law somewhere along the way. Ship a few of these "innocents" off to Gitmo, run them thru the interrogation (it's not torture) for a few months and we'll see how innocent they really are when they start spilling the beans.
 
Sounds like a typical, efficiently run gov program to me.:barf: :barf:

"What are we doing? I don't know but we have to use the budget up before 30 September so it doesn't get cut next year. Buy more office supplies. We may have to get some new furniture too! Oh, and write up some more reports about how busy we are."

The constant justifying your existence to maintain and increase your budget is EXACTLY why the gov't is so ineffecient at everything they do.

This actually bothers me more than the innocent folks on the list. IMO, there's more danger of degrading the usefulness of 'the list' than there is danger to the folks wrongly added to it.

I'm not saying it's okay to put them on it, but that it's unlikely it will result in anything happening. Teddy Kennedy was on it one, but that was 'mistake':rolleyes:
 
Big deal - if the people are really "innocent" they have nothing to worry about. And really - how many "innocent" people are there? Dig deep enough on anyone and I'm sure they have violated a law somewhere along the way. Ship a few of these "innocents" off to Gitmo, run them thru the interrogation (it's not torture) for a few months and we'll see how innocent they really are when they start spilling the beans.
:confused: Yeah, and I'm sure some of those people are militant rednecks that own guns. Those are the real dangers to society....we must stop them.


For the children.
 
To rick_reno...

With the way the current administration is running things, their idea of "interrogation" can also easily detain you indefinately, without due process, without a warrant.(Patriot Act) So if you want to be treated like you committed some huge sin, be my guest. Why should I be listed as a "potential terrorist" if I have done nothing truly suspicious? (Whether I like it or not, my skin color would probably also work against me, you think I'd find it fair if I was interrogated for no good reason?) Next thing you know, jaywalking is punishable by death. Why exactly should we send people off to Gitmo just to get an answer? It sounds as inefficient as the people in charge of our country right now, including this federal agency. Nevermind, how about we get everyone with a lazy eye because that's obviously a tactic the terrorists use to analyze their surroundings before they attack.:rolleyes:


Epyon

EDIT: I'm sure Hitler dug deep enough to find out info on people who broke the law somewhere along the way just to send them off to Auschwitz too. Not every imperialist establishment starts out fast. Ever consider maybe we're all trapped, and they're just slowly pulling the switch on us, and we won't notice till it's too late? Then again, it's a good thing we have the Second Amendment
 
With the way the current administration is running things, their idea of "interrogation" can also easily detain you indefinately, without due process, without a warrant.(Patriot Act)

Could you cite the provision from the Patriot Act that allows that? You've cited to it, so you should have it at hand, correct? I'm just asking because the ability to hold Lincoln did the same thing to journalists during the Civil War, without the benefit of the Patriot Act, and the rationale behind the current administration's actions was based on that precedent.
 
I'm just asking because the ability to hold Lincoln did the same thing to journalists during the Civil War, without the benefit of the Patriot Act, and the rationale behind the current administration's actions was based on that precedent.

I read a lot of news everyday, for a long long time.

I have never heard any administration official mention that indefinite detention of US citizens on US soil was based on any precedent, and definitely not based on what Lincoln may or may not have done.

Please provide some quote of this from the white house or the justice department.
 
OF COURSE WE ARE ALL ON SOME LIST OR ANOTHER.

The gubments scouring of the net for 'militiants' or whatever we're called now a days has each and every one of use in a database, cross referenced with what site we visit and linked with what topics we agree/disagree with.

Its not a tin foil hat assertion.

The gubment does freely admit to scanning net traffic..... if you are technical enough you know the process that they claim to use is nonsense. You cannot 'pick out the bad guy' without LOOKING AT ALL THE GUYS, Good or bad... same thing for net traffic.

Ever put more than $10K in or out of a bank? On ANOTHER list.

Ever since the 50's and the political climate has been this way.
 
So we've gone from an "unidentified" air marshall's unsubstantiated comments, and progressed to the detention of U.S. citizens in Gitmo.

You all have forgotten the secret alien army maintained by Karl Rove. The vice-president is in charge of the program, and the aliens eat air marshalls who provide too much information to the press. The aliens also eat U.S. citizens who are suspected of being terrorists -- all without due process! :D :p
 
"Ever put more than $10K in or out of a bank? On ANOTHER list."

I had read another article of a man whose wife and him decided to pay off a credit card debt. They paid about 10k and after several weeks, he noticed the check had not cleared. After a while of research and contacting people at the company, he found out that the company was to report anyone making a large payment to homeland secturity so they can investigate that person.
 
I feel as if I should move to the mountains some where, and load all my guns and eat bugs for the rest of my life.........:barf:

That or orginize a secret underground movment and overthrow the goverment!!!!! MUHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAA!!!

see I bet that post just put me on a list, somewhere.
 
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