Indoor Range, Failure to Fire, What do you do?

On the range, wait in case of a hangfire. If you do a quick "tap rack" you might find the round going off under your hand or in your face. In a combat situation you may have to take a chance, but a regular range is a place where safety comes first, not a place to spray rounds as fast as you can.

Train as you fight is CRAP, has no place on a regular range, and is a damned good way to hurt yourself or someone else. If you don't have the brains to be able to tell the difference between deadly combat and a range intended for recreational shooting, then you don't have the brains to control any deadly weapon.

If cops want to play those games and shoot each other on their own (lawsuit free) ranges, or you want to play movie "special agent" at some exotic training area, fine, but "shoot now, think later" combat drills have no place on civilian ranges.

And just in case I have not made it clear, I have had experience with "combat" shooters. And the next time some idiot in cammies does a tap and rack with his damned "combat" gun pointed at my guts, I am going to put him in a "deadly combat" situation right then.

Jim
 
Train as you fight is CRAP, has no place on a regular range, and is a damned good way to hurt yourself or someone else. If you don't have the brains to be able to tell the difference between deadly combat and a range intended for recreational shooting, then you don't have the brains to control any deadly weapon.
Jim, that , my friend, is the WORST DAMN BS I have ever read on a forum or on a range in my entire life. Stick to shooting soda cans and NRA targets. Refrain from giving life saving tactical tips to shooters b/c you know Bo Didiley! Yes there are a few "horror" stories here about Type I IAs. But, to train otherwise is foolhardy.
Jim, I just read your whole thread. Pull you skirt up and get over it. You are whining against the most basic of IA drills.
 
Jim, I've gotta try real hard not to get banned right now...people who fear guns, an fear training with them, are some of the most dangerous gun handlers out there.

Under duress you will NOT rise to the occasion...you will sink to the level of your training!
 
Tap, roll & rack clears three types of misfires: 1) failure to fire, 2) improperly seated magazine (one-shot wonder), and 3) failure to eject.

Hence, tap, roll, rack, and drive-on.

I regard any failure to fire when the trigger is pressed to be a "misfire."
 
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I'm gonna go with Jim on this one.

The exception would be if you can train on your own range or a range where everyone has agreed to abide by other than the basic firearm safety guidelines.

But if you're on the line next to other shooters and you get a misfire, you'd be wise to keep the muzzle pointed downrange for 30 seconds. If you eject a hangfire that bursts and injures the shooter(s) next to you, you'd better have some pretty impressive liability insurance. Cause any BASIC firearm safety course material is going to show that you didn't exercise proper caution/follow the accepted procedures in dealing with your misfire/hangfire.

My guess is that very few shooters are going to happily to carry your brass home from the range in their faces just so you can feel tactical.
 
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This is why I only fire on the ranges that I run and teach to standard, or when I can find a private "range"...I refuse to go to a range where I can't train.
 
Cuss!

Everyone has forgotten the most important and most universal procedure when there's a mechanical failure...
CUSS!
First I cuss the cartridge.
Then I wait a good ten to twenty seconds. I pass the time by cussing softly.
About that point I've decided it might be the firing pin so I cuss it.
Then I rotate the semi-auto's ejection port away from my face-just in case- pop out the mag. and eject the round, cuss the gun just to make sure it knows I'm unhappy and it had better be on its best behavior.
I go back to cussing the cartridge.
I check the primer. If there's a dimple then it isn't the firing pin so I cuss the primer (the most polite word I use for it is 'hard' and the language goes south from there) and the hammer spring.
If it's a revolver I just keep shooting and cuss semi-autos for being so [cuss] complicated.
Okay, cussing probably doesn't help but it makes me feel better. Just thought I'd lighten the mood of the thread :D
 
While cursing is incredibly important during any critical incident, it shouldn't be part of civilized training discussion.

As noted above, this is a strategy and tactics forum. Range Safety is always important, though. Can anyone cite a real FIRST HAND incident of a properly executed immediate action drill resulting in an injury because of a true delayed detonation of commercially manufactured ammo?

fal, Thanks for your candid story.. but that has nothing to do with immediate action drills, it had to do with poor weapons handling and not keeping the weapon pointed in a safe direction (ie- not at your own body parts).

I would never allow a "tactical," "Concealed Carry" or similar student to wait more than about long enough to utter a quick curse word before they started their immediate action drill without verbal motivation. The idea that you wait to see what happens while you are trying to move offline from an attack, use cover properly, etc, "at speed" is so counter to any effective training model as to be offensive.

Target Shooters would be another story, but that is outside the realm of the S&T forum....

Recreational shooters (also outside of S&T) on my ranges are in a completely different category, as the instructor normally clears their malfunctions so that they can get back to playing movie special agent at our luxurious (not exotic) training area.

If you are training for self-defense or defense of others, Train Realistically...

Rob Pincus
Director of Operations, Valhalla Training Center
 
a real FIRST HAND incident of a properly executed immediate action drill resulting in an injury because of a true delayed detonation of commercially manufactured ammo
[sarcasm]You're right--we should wait until we can document an injury (preferably a serious one) before recommending that people follow generally accepted safety procedures.[/sarcasm]

Ok, once more I want to make it clear that if the users of the range have agreed to follow a different set of safety rules, then it's a totally different story. But if you're "training" at a public range with other shooters nearby, it's your responsibility to see that you don't take actions that endanger them. When dealing with firearms that means that you follow ALL the established firearm safety rules. That includes keeping the muzzle pointed downrange after a misfire long enough to be reasonably certain that it's not a hangfire.

I don't see that this is a difficult distinction (public range, standard rules vs private or controlled range, special rules), nor do I see why this distinction should cause anyone any problems.
 
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John,

Your assertion that the distinction needs clarification may be correct... shooting at a public range is usually not training.

"The athletic ability to draw fast and shoot straight...blah,blah,etc,etc...."

The reason it causes a problem is because consistency is one of the most incredibly important parts of tactical preparation. It is what makes cognitive reaction quicker and therefore it makes us more efficient.. having more than one way to respond to the same thing causes a decision making process in the brain that MUST slow us down, regardless of which decision we make.
 
Rob,

Guys like you, and the ranges that people like you run aren't the problem. The problem is newbies reading these posts and walking away convinced that in order to be tactical, they have to do an immediate clearance drill anytime they hear a click. They're not headed to train at Valhalla or Gunsite, they're headed to "train" at the public range while standing next to an unsuspecting shooter.

Sometimes the people involved in these forum discussions lose track of the fact that the majority of readers aren't instructors, range owners, or Special Forces members. ;)
 
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