Independant Kurdistan Now!

Turkey is a reasonably stable Democracy albeit a Muslim Democracy. They can be irritated. SOMEBODY is always irritated no matter what we do.

Redworm, that is a BIG pile of bait ya put out there.
 
Arm them well with US gear and nobody will try anything.
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I'm sure we could go one better and actually establish bases there. I get the impression that the Kurds would be more or less happy to have us. A couple combat brigades (or more) and the ability to easily airlift more in quite quickly would probably be enough to give most of the other kids pause.

Perhaps it's time we stop making decisions based on how it benefits us when those decisions affect millions of lives around the world.
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Actually, I could care less how it benefits us. More important is how it benefits the Kurds. They've gotten the raw end a few times, and yet still seem more than willing to accept our help, and would in fact appreciate it. Or so it seemed to me, having spent time in both a majority Sunni Arab region and a largely Kurdish region.
 
Redworm, that is a BIG pile of bait ya put out there.
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Yes and I apologize. I should probably edit that.

I got overzealous and forgot that you were asking about a specific situation instead of the whole conundrum in general. It's a knee-jerk reaction when I hear foreign policy idea being made that suggests our interests are more important than lives. I know that's not what you were suggesting but I mis-read it as such. Sorry.
They can be irritated. SOMEBODY is always irritated no matter what we do.
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But this is sort of my point. If someone is always going to be irritated with what we do then maybe we should stop doing things in other folk's back yards.
Actually, I could care less how it benefits us. More important is how it benefits the Kurds. They've gotten the raw end a few times, and yet still seem more than willing to accept our help, and would in fact appreciate it. Or so it seemed to me, having spent time in both a majority Sunni Arab region and a largely Kurdish region.
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If it's good for them, great. But We need to worry about how everyone else is going to feel about it as well because if the other guys don't like it very much they'll just get even more pissed of at us.

I don't want more people pissed off at us. :(
 
This is an idea that for now, I can agree with. We could redeploy to "Kurdistan", send more troops to Afghanistan and let Iran take over the Shia region and maybe have the British/allies guard the Sunni region. Establish independent governments, infrastructure, trading, etc. etc.

Maybe this could work. And then we could just say we won, and have most of our troops back home. It'll be like another South Korea. Except I guess, a lot more dangerous. That is if the Kurds REALLY want us there. I mean we would HAVE to be sure so as to not have another "welcome us with flowers" debacle again. But if they really do like us, damn, what are we waiting for?
 
One of the Kurds' permanent strategic problems is that they have no seacoast:

http://www.kurdistan4all.com/map.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/images/dist-kurdish.gif

Iraqi Kurdistan is entirely landlocked. If Iraq is partitioned and the south falls into hostile hands, how can the US move troops and supplies to Kurdish bases? How can the Kurds export their oil? No doubt this is one reason that the current Kurdish leadership is *not* pushing for full independence, but would prefer autonomy within a federal Iraqi state.

The most optimistic Kurdish maps show an outlet to the Mediterranean, carved out of Turkish territory. That would take a very big war and a lot of ethnic cleansing to achieve. It may be that our enemies will push us all into that kind of war, but I don't want to rush into it.
 
I bet the Turks would be willing to talk turkey on the oil transport issue and if they won't, the Iranians probably will. Both nations talk a mean game but money talks and flowing oil tends to have a calming effect on actions, if not words.

If neither of them want to soak up some cash, I bet the Syrians would. There is already pipeline infrastructure running from Mosul into Syria.

Making buddy-buddy with any one of the three would be good for the Kurds and good for us as well. $ = good will
 
Though I think a divided Iraq (Kurd/Sunni/Shi'a) is the only way for a possible good ending there I think GWB believes otherwise, and no ammount of noise will change his mind.
 
OK, the junk is headed for the turbines.

Now that Turkey is set on using its military in Kurdistan, what do we do when they cross the border?

I've read plenty of reporting these past few days about the Turk threats, but what will our response be?

Anyone know our contingency plan for a Turkish invasion of Northern Iraq?
 
Anyone know our contingency plan for a Turkish invasion of Northern Iraq?
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Are you talking politically or militarily? Because if we did decide to intervene, it wouldn't be much of an issue for us. Force-on-force is something we still do quite well, and we already have more than enough forces in the region, between ground and air, to respond to any force Turkey might send in.

Politically, heck if I know.
 
I bet we are going to let them stomp all over the Kurds.

It would be nice if we teamed up with Kurdistan and maybe Armenia (:D)and told the turks in strong language that an invasion of Kurdistan will not be tolerated... but that will not happen.

What do the Turks have on Bush? He falls all over himself to make them happy while they threaten to invade US-occupied Iraq. I know they have been our friends since the end of WW2, but we are going to have to stand up to them at some point.

What would we lose by irritating Turkey right now? They are already hopping mad over the weird genocide bill, why not stand up for the Kurds while there is no good-will between our nations to spoil?
 
What do the Turks have on Bush? He falls all over himself to make them happy while they threaten to invade US-occupied Iraq. I know they have been our friends since the end of WW2, but we are going to have to stand up to them at some point.
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It's not just Bush. Clinton didn't exactly put it to them, either. As noted in the other thread, Reagan was the last president to actually use the word "genocide" in relation to Turkey.

What would we lose by irritating Turkey right now? They are already hopping mad over the weird genocide bill, why not stand up for the Kurds while there is no good-will between our nations to spoil?
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Well, the basing rights and airspace usage we share with Turkey right now are pretty convenient. They aren't exactly star contributors to our force in Iraq, though...wikipedia says they currently have two soldiers in Baghdad. Makes me wonder what happened to the whopping three they used to have stationed with us in Kirkuk. Not to mention that they refused to let us use their territory in order to move troops in on a second front during the initial invasion...yeah, strong allies indeed.
 
oldbill: Anyone know our contingency plan for a Turkish invasion of Northern Iraq?

I hope it's "Stay out of their way." We have troops in Iraqi Kurdistan. We are allied with the Republic of Turkey in NATO. I can't recall any previous case where NATO allies have gone to war.

oldbill: What would we lose by irritating Turkey right now?

Access to the Incirlik base. The main export route for Kurdish oil. Supply lines into Iraqi Kurdistan. For starters.
 
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