In The Market For A New O/U Need Opinions

and no matter what --- have fun with the process.

You're not going to be too happy with the "side kicks" if you take them out and pattern them. They're ok for a few laughs ...but imagine how aggravated you'll be if you shoot the sub-gague events at State ...and you lose another title by 1 or 2 birds ...because you were shooting the "side kicks" ....vs a good tubed gun / or even a stand alone gun in 28ga or .410 ...

and I know / in my state sproting tournament - partly because I won the 28ga events (in class) 2 yrs in a row ...and lost the .410 events 2 yrs in a row ( to the same guy / by 1 bird each yr ).../ but at least I knew it wasn't my equipment that let me down ...

The entry fees, the practice time, the ammo etc on sub-gagues ...is not insignificant...
 
BigJimP when you ran full length sub gauge tubes did your gun have the "pig on a shovel" feel to it compared to shooting the 12 gauge, or was it fairly easy to get used to the added or reduced weight when switching from to the other? I would like to experiment with a set of side-kick tubes before buying after reading your last post. No point in wasting money on those if they are going to be a weak link.
 
I've tested a lot of guns with full length tubes ....and I just didn't like them because of the difference in weight issue. The ones I considered the most - were a Citori XS Skeet 20ga ( with 28ga and .410 tubes ) ....and a Citori XS Skeet 12ga with 20ga, 28ga and .410 tubes ....both guns were 30" barrels.

In the 12ga Citori XS Skeet with 30" barrels and adj comb - the gun weighs about 8.5 lbs ...but when you put the full length tubes in it ...it added about 10 - 12 oz ...so it went up to between 9.25 and 9.5 lbs ...making it a little clumsy ( as a skeet gun, sporting clays guns ).

In the 20ga Citori XS Skeet with 30" barrels and adj comb - the gun weighs about 7.5 lbs ...so again adding the 10-12 oz for tubes ...it goes up to about 8.25 lbs .../ so as a stand alone 20ga ...its way lighter than the same model 12ga ( 8.5 lbs ) ...but with the tubes in it for 28ga and .410 it felt pretty good.

In the 20ga ...when you go to a 28ga tube set ----they're really thin / same on a 12ga when you go to a 20ga tube set ( they're thin ) ...and occasionally there will be cracking issues around the extractors / ejectors on the thinner tubes...

Bottom line ...unless I was going to spend the money for a carrier barrel and do it right ...I decided tubes were not my best option. So I ended up buying a stand alone XS Skeet 20ga, and a stand alone 28ga and a stand alone .410 ... This was a few yrs back / and I guess in all 4 guns (actually I have 5 - because I have a backup gun in 12ga as well / all in the Citori XS Skeet models, and 30" barrels ---- the 20ga, 28ga and .410 are all built on the 20ga receiver )....but I've got about $ 15,000 in replacement cost today on all 5 guns - or call it $12,000 for 4 guns. So you have to weigh the $ 12,000 for 4 guns ...against the cost of a carrier barrel and subgague tubes and chokes ...etc ..( and I'd say with a carrier barrel and everything its about $ 20,000 ) ....so its a little cheaper with stand alone guns ....but its an inferior system ...even though I've tried to weight all 4 guns so they are identical ....they're still just a hair different...and the triggers in all 4 guns are pretty good ...but not identical...

So its kind of an apples to oranges thing ....both work / or all 3 work ....the single stand alone with tubes is not the best ( too much weight difference), stand alone guns means you have to pack up and carry 4 guns around ..and they're close but not perfect ....and the carrier barrel option - which is pretty close to perfect but a little more money.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62169&d=1281543688

So here are my primary guns --- all Citori XS Skeet models, 30" barrels top one is the 12ga, then 20ga, the 28ga and the .410 ....and since my semi-serious days of competition are over ...frankly, I like having 4 stand alone guns ...not having to fuss with tube sets...etc. But in your case - if you really want to get into this in a big way / the carrier barrel is really the way to do / and its an investment - that I think you will get your money out of long term as well - if you take care of the gun and the tubes, etc.

Now - I do like a heavier gun for Trap ...where I go to an XT ( Citori XT with 32" barrels at around 10lbs ...and I have one that is a stock gun with adj comb and one with a GraCoil and a fancy upgraded stock that I bought used ...) and I like them both ...and I can shoot them in skeet and sporting ...but they are really clumsy ( in my buddies words / they're like trying to swing a big ole sewer pipe ) when I was just fooling around and shooting skeet with the one with the GraCoil one day ...just for laughs.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61928&d=1280945127

Both nice guns ...just not a good sporting or skeet gun, in my opinion.
 
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Big Jim, being a casual shooter you're missing the major aspect of the carrier barrel system: Gauge change time and convenience.

Back in the day, a lot of shooters competed with Skeet sets -- a 12-ga O/U with extra 20, 28 & .410 barrels. Folks generally got better scores with sets than with four different guns. Having the same stock and receiver was a big bonus, the down side was cost. And, there was a big difference between the 12-ga and .410-bore barrels.

Then Skeeters discovered full length tubes. You could shoot 4-gauges from the same 12-ga barrel cheaper than with a 4-barrel set. And, as a bonus, the added weigh of the tubes smoothed the swing of the short barreled Skeet guns. Tube scores soared and the popularity of expensive 4-barrel sets plummeted.

IMHO, the weakness of the tube system was a matter of housekeeping -- you had to have your 12-ga barrel squeaky clean before inserting your tubes. You couldn't change gauge as quickly with a tubes as you could with a 4-barrel set. These were the days before fuzzy sticks and bore snakes. Then the carrier barrel set-up was introduced -- you didn't dirty your tube carrying barrel so gauge changes were much simpler. (Of course, if your barrels weren't identical you lost the "common barrel" advantage.) And, you didn't have to remember to install your barrel weight when shooting 12-ga.

To the casual and mid-class shooter, a carrier barrel may not sound cost effective. But, if you're a scratch shooter, you'll soon appreciate the advantage of quick gauge changes when they are calling the shoot-off squads, as daylight starts to fade, at the conclusion of a major tournament.
 
Sure zippy, things evolve over time ..../just like barrel length issues too...

But in my mind - cleaning a carrier barrel to change it over from a 20ga to a 28ga ...still takes the same amount of time ...as cleaning a stand alone 20ga gun so you can drop the 28ga tube set into it....

so sure - having stand alone guns or a 4 barrel set were faster to transition ...but like you say with fuzzy sticks and bore snakes these days the transition can be done inside of 10 min probably with no issues for changing tube sets in a carrier barrel or in a stand alone gun / but you're right / when they're calling squads out at the end of the day ...they don't want to wait 10 or 15 min ....

The carrier barrels I've seen are bored out - to accept the tube sets ...so the carrier barrel with the tubes in it ...is identical in weight to the stand alone 12ga barrel. The 4 barrel sets are another option ...and I see some mfg's are making them again ...but I don't think they're that good an option ..and certainly not that good for a serious competition shooter like yourself - if you were going into it today / with the options we have now.
 
But in my mind - cleaning a carrier barrel to change it over from a 20ga to a 28ga ...still takes the same amount of time ...as cleaning a stand alone 20ga gun so you can drop the 28ga tube set into it.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't - there is no reason for the carrier inside to get dirty at all - pop one set out, pop the other set in and be on station.

The advantage of the carrier barrel in lieu of a barrel weight is that the weight AND balance point will be the same EVERY time. Unless you have little scribe marks or something to show you where to install the weight, it can vary a little - that can mean changing balance points.

One receiver/stock to get custom-fitted in lieu of 4, exact balance and handling in all 4 gauges - if you are a serious skeeter - it is the way to go
 
it's a very nice gun and one well worth consideration. If I bought one, it would definitely be a new model plain vanilla F3 sporter.

Slugo, I shot my friends F3 Sporting (low rib) and it was very nice. One thing I am wondering is does one have to change his shooting style when shooting the F3 SuperSport with the medium high rib? I know the gun can be set to shoot 50/50 but will the shooters hold or the way he sees the clay be different between the low ribbed and medium high ribbed guns? I assume that the F3 SS doesn't shoot like a trap gun even though it has a higher rib than traditional sporting guns.
 
Bought The Blasser F3 SuperSport

I went ahead and bought the Blaser F3 SuperSport! I have to admit I am loving it so far. I have had it out twice and am already shooting it as well as I shot my Citori 625. The higher rib hasn't been as much of an adjustment as I expected but find the dropping clays are a little harder to hit with it so far. I really like the balance and feel of the gun. It's by far and away the nicest gun I have ever shot let alone owned. Now I need to spend some time fine tuning the guns setting and see what works best for me. So far I am thinking the rib set in the highest position (50/50) is what is working best.

I bought it from Robert Paxton at Paxton Arms in Dallas. Robert was a huge help and first class to deal with all the way! I am looking forward to the upcoming shooting season!
 
congrats on your new Blaser SS. That is a great gun. I have both low and high rib Brownings. I shoot both equally as well. I do like the more heads up position of a high rib, but it's not a game breaker. I think Blaser makes an excellent shotgun and their modular CNC construction makes buying a new barrel very easy, they just drop it in, no hand fitting required. I hate tubes for many of the reasons noted above. BJP has it right, a whole gun in each gauge.

Enjoy shooting that new gun!!! :)
 
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