In Praise Of The 45 GAP

JohnKSa said:
I hear people complaining, but I’ve never seen any proof that "most people" don’t like the grip angle. The fact that they sell so well would seem to suggest that there are lots of people who do like the grip—there are certainly many other guns with different grip options out there but in spite of that, Glock sales remain very strong.

I think that it’s gotten to the point that people have heard so many afficionados of other guns complaining about the Glock grip angle that some have come believe that it’s really true that there are huge numbers of people buying Glocks even though they hate the grip angle— and even though they have lots of other options available.

I guess it's possible though it seems very unlikely. My take is that there is a minority who is very vocal and who don’t like the Glock grip angle and rarely miss a chance to say so. So while it is common to see people complaining about it, it’s mostly the SAME people complaining about it over and over, not a lot of different people (or a majority of people) complaining.
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Glocks have a well-deserved reputation for ruggedness and reliability, is it really so hard to believe that folks would be willing to live with or otherwise work around a less-than-perfect grip in exchange for a firearm which is considered to be practically infallible?

Consider the booming success of the peripheral that is 80% Glock Lowers, and note that the one major difference the majority of them have in common is that the grip angle/geometry has been modified from the standard design. You say that the success of Glock firearms suggests that there are lots of people who do in fact like the Glock's grip, and that those who complain about it are a vocal minority who perpetually repeats their disapproval, but I say that the success of Polymer 80% Glock Lowers suggests otherwise. Also note that there aren't very many Polymer 80% Lowers on the market for other popular competitors to Glock Pistols, including those with no shortage of other aftermarket peripherals for them. Why do you suppose that is?
 
... is it really so hard to believe that folks would be willing to live with or otherwise work around a less-than-perfect grip in exchange for a firearm which is considered to be practically infallible?
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No, I can see that accounting for some of the sales. I have a few guns I really like even though they don't point well for me. But I have a hard time believing that the majority of Glock owners don't like the grip angle but bought them anyway.

That said, I'm williing to be convinced if there's some study/survey out there with conclusive evidence on the topic.
Consider the booming success of the peripheral that is 80% Glock Lowers, and note that the one major difference the majority of them have in common is that the grip angle/geometry has been modified from the standard design.
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Booming success is probably an overstatement. But yes, there are a lot of them sold. Of course it makes sense that they would differ from the standard Glock lower in some way or there would be no point in buying them. I'm not claiming that everyone likes the Glock grip angle--I think we know that's obviously not the case. What I'm interested in is the idea that the majority of people don't like it.
Also note that there aren't very many Polymer 80% Lowers on the market for other popular competitors to Glock Pistols, including those with no shortage of other aftermarket peripherals for them. Why do you suppose that is?
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I would say the lack of aftermarket or a sufficient supply of reasonably priced factory parts to complete the kits plays a huge part in that.

Another point to consider is that there are other guns out there that point very much like Glocks. The Kahr pistols, for example, point for me exactly like Glocks do. Kahr didn't start making their pistols until well after Glock was established. It seems odd that they would pick a grip angle for their guns that most people didn't like. Again, this points to the idea that while grip angle preference certainly differs, there are people who like the Glock grip angle--enough so that Kahr was able to establish a working business model based on guns that mimic the Glock grip angle.

I have no idea how I could prove which camp (those who like it vs. those who don't) is the largest in the absence of a study. Nor how anyone else could either.

What is certain is this:

There are guns out there with grip angles that are less raked than the Glock pistols. And there are a lot of people who like pistols with those grip angles. The 1911, for example is well liked.

There are also pistols out there with grip angles more raked than the Glock pistols--there are a lot people who like them too. The .22LR Ruger MK series is an example, as is the Luger--both of which have been praised, at one time or another, as natural pointers. As I recall, Elmer Keith liked the Luger as a pointer and disliked the 1911, just as one example.

And there are Glocks and other pistols that have the same grip angle as Glocks. It seems perfectly reasonable to assume that there are a lot of people who like them as well.
 
I think the grip angle is a red herring.

I think there's two main issues with the Glock grip.

The first is that it's a slab uniform-thickness square-cornered grip, which makes it feel much larger than it is (the 2x4 grip criticism).

The second is that the infamous "Glock hump" at the base of the grip tends to make it point high for for people used to anything else, although personally I feel this isn't much of an issue for anything Gen4 and newer.

If anything, I love a sharp grip angle. Lugers, Ruger's MK series, the Crosman 1377, even the Nintendo Zapper. Great. If anything, it's a testament that Glock managed to ruin it.

I have a Kahr MK9 right here. Points great. But no hump.

As far as oddball pistol calibers, 7.62x25 is tremendously entertaining. The muzzle blast and muzzle flash is pretty close to a .357 magnum, and bullet drop is really flat. If you were lucky enough to pick up surplus while it was cheap, it's a hoot and a half to shoot.

I like the basic concept of .327 Fed Mag, but I haven't fired one, there's not a lot of revolvers in it, and the ammo is expensive and hard to come by.

Speaking of weirdo revolver calibers, 9mm Federal seems really cool but .38 Special was just too well established for it to take hold.

I have conflicted feelings about .45 GAP. I secretly suspect the whole thing was a ploy to save on tooling by recycling 9mm/.40 frames while touting the theoretical ergonomic advantages without actually changing the ergonomics.

I like the price of police surplus .45 GAP Glocks, but I don't like the weirdness of the ammo, and I'm very concerned about availability a decade or two down the road. Seems like it could make sense for something like a car gun or BOB gun or something where the pistol's lifetime ammo supply might be limited
 
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Why in the world is Glock so stubborn about changing the grip on their firearms?
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The better question is why are the other manufacturers so stubborn to adopt a better grip angle

The original 1911 had a flat MSH. Soldiers during WW-1 complained that it shot too low. Experimenting after the war led to the arched MSH which effectively changed the grip angle to almost exactly what Glock uses. The German Luger used a similar grip angle. That grip angle has proven to be the most natural for quick combat style shooting for nearly 100 years.

But after WW-2 the 1911 started being modified for target shooting. Shooters favored the flat MSH for this style of shooting and they became fashionable. Today's shooters have been accustomed to guns with that grip angle and to them a Glock or 1911 with an arched MSH "feels" odd.

But take a group of 1st time shooters and give them the option of several guns and the Glock grip angle feels the most natural to most of them because they don't have any preconceived ideas about what a grip angle is supposed to be like.

Experienced shooters often struggle when they 1st try a Glock. But I've not met anyone yet who didn't shoot one better than they did other guns after they mastered them. And LE agencies have found that new shooters performed much better with Glocks than other guns.
 
I have always been a 1911/45acp fan. I like BIG Bullet Holes! I have owned a 1911 for the last 45 or so years. I also like the lighter weight Glock pistols in the G17/G19 grip size. I have owned four G21's in various Generations and every one did not feel right in my hand. I have owned a G22, G35, G27, and G23 and liked all but the G27 just fine. I found the G27 a little slower to get on target. I stumbled into a G38.3 at my local gun shop and purchased it a few years ago. I now had a Glock I was totally happy with. Nice Big 45 bullets that I like, and a grip the same as a G19/G23 that felt right in my hands. It was soon followed by a G37.3. I just purchased one of the Florida HP G37.4's that have came on the market. I lucked out and got one that looks unfired. I have no worry about ammo. I have four 5 gallon buckets of once fired brass I picked up while it was still fairly easy to find. My G38.3 has been my every day carry for a few years now. Like my Custom Colt 1911 XSE Stainless, I have no plan to trade my Glock 45GAP pistols off. I am totally happy with them.

Bob R
 
I actually like the Glock grip angle personally. I also like arched mainspring housings on 1911s. That doesn’t mean I think that a Glock grip can’t be improved. The POF P19 frame is something I really like, and the Shadow Systems MR920 is nice as well. Even though the latter comes with back straps that allow you to change the grip angle from something other than what is standard of Glock, I prefer the back strap that ends up pointing like a Glock. I appreciate the different textures and shaping as opposed to a stock Glock, but the angle is something I want to keep.

I have owned a number of striker fired polymer pistols where the grip seemed to “fit my hand” better, but even after months of shooting them I still shot Glocks better when I went back, (even when I wanted to like those other pistols more). For me the additional canting of my wrists as part of the Glock grip angle helps me control the pistol at speed.

That said there are a lot of options on the market. If someone doesn’t like a Glock grip angle or hump there are a lot of alternatives.


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