In a world of 14.5" uppers one man pins on a 20"

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Willie Lowman

New member
It seems everywhere I look I see posts about how folks are trying to make their AR 15 just like what the military is using or what the Ninjas at the Mall are using.

Rails... 14.5" mid length gas system... VFG... BUIS... Some kind of EOtech/ACOG/AimPoint thing...

For the last 10 years I have been playing that game as well. Recently I sold my "enough rails to build a commuter train" upper. My N4 basic has a EOtech on it and that is as fancy-shmancy as it is going to get.

I just found a new to me 20" government profile A2 upper. I pinned that thing on my Colt lower and went shooting. It was great! The sight radius made shooting with the irons very pleasant. The long hand guard allowed for more comfortable shooting positions. The rifle length gas system made for smooth operation and proper ejection. A happy camper is I.

I am not going to get rid of my short lil Noveske but I am not going to be shopping for any more stubby uppers for some time.
 
Another fan of the 20's here. I have a Franken AR that consists of a Surplus
A1 upper on a Cav Arms lower. It's smooth shooting and light weight.
 
I've been out shopping for an A2 NM rifle in 20" and have been laughed out of two stores so far. If it isn't a 16" flat-top with extra rails and toy's galore, it can't be had where I live. :confused:
 
I've been out shopping for an A2 NM rifle in 20" and have been laughed out of two stores so far. If it isn't a 16" flat-top with extra rails and toy's galore, it can't be had where I live.
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Build one. You will be able to build it to your specifications. If you buy an assembled upper, you shouldn't need any special tools.
 
Well the military's 14.5's are a carbine length gas system. Which has a stronger recoil impulse. Having a 14.5 mid fills a niche to me in a weapon that you would use for defense, yes it's the shortest length you can have legally without paperwork but it's still a pretty compact package. Sure 16 is a little longer but thats length i don't want. Start to add suppressors in the process and you pay for every inch of your weapon due to extended length. I will eventually file paperwork for an SBR though. I have a 14.5" mid and a 18" quad rails on both. I have quad rails on the mid for my AFG, and a flashlight down the road. I have quad rails on my 18" because it's a MK12 Mod 1 clone :o I only have a scope on my 18" and my 14.5 is still sitting open sights until i find time to put an aimpoint on it. I enjoy shooting my 18" just due to the fact i can stretch out the .223 round, but my 14.5 actually recoils less because i have a PWS SM556, pretty much dissipates all muzzle blast to the side and recoil is non existent. Will soon be putting the Ops Inc. Brake & Collar on my 18" though.
 
Man i was rocking the midlengths back in late 2005. It wasnt until recently that they became they new must haves :rolleyes:. Here is my old Armalite, back when I also rocked the cheap optics and grips lol.

AR001.jpg

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While I am building a 14.5 Mid build as we speak. I have had, and still do appreciate a 20inch upper, either open or scoped. Problem is.... they are great for standing/sitting/laying on a static range.... like most people shoot. Unfortunately the carbine shoots I go to, its a little difficult to run around with a full 20 inch upper along with the full length a2 stock... not impossible.... but harder.

There are also a lot of loads and optics tailored to the 14.5 inch barrel.

The mid length gas system is supposed to be a little more softer shooting and makes for better recoil (not that AR's have that much recoil). My real reason for the Middy system is the same someone above stated. I use a Magpul AFG2 on my carbine now, and while I love the grip... it is not ideal for a carbine length rail.

As for throwing mall ninja toys on it... I use the rails, for my AFG2 and a Surefire scout light. Other than that it wears some low profile rail covers.

The flashlight is because I am fortunate to live where I do not have to worry about over penetration if I were to use the carbine for HD. Plus I also have 75 acres of private property where we do a lot of shooting, and even do some fun run and gun night shoots. Now some might call me a mall ninja for wanting to use a carbine for HD, but where I live... It will take a good 20-30 mins for police to respond and travel here. Far from a high crime area I would say, but crime happens none the less... and I have accepted the fact that my fate and my family's would rely in my hands even if at the first sign of trouble I called the police.

I use a variety of optics, the 14.5 will generally speaking where a simple red dot, but if I am going to trust my life to a rifle, I want back up iron sights. A lot of times at the range, or run and gun games I take the back up's off, because if my optic dies or breaks.... and I loose that stage... OH WELL. If the gun is next to the bed for HD then I leave them on. Stanger things have happened so they say.:confused:

I think after this 14.5 mid build. I will probably build up another 20 inch upper with a flattop and scope.;)
 
Funny, most of the guys in the competitions around here prefer a heavier barrel, 18-20". I built mine that way. It started out as a Bushmaster Predator upper. With the heavy 20" barrel, heavy stock, adjustable gas block, and muzzle brake, it has virtually no recoil, swings very nicely, and is easy to hold steady. It weighs just over 10 lbs. I shot in my first carbine match just recently and got 6th place out of 32 people. Here's my rifle:

DSC03579.jpg


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Nice rifle indeed, I just prefer shorter for running and gunning. I am not very tall, only 5'10 so to me the 20 inch uppers with full length stocks seem awkward when I am running around barricades, walls and windows with it.

I would never take anything away from a 20inch build or someone who is comfortable with it. The debate is simply that the A2 and the M4 both exist for a reason. I much prefer a collapsable stock for the same reason someone wearing body armor might. I don't wear armor... but in bitter cold PA winters (I know not as cold as some of you:eek:) I wear a lot of clothing, and it is nice to make the stock shorter to accommodate.

Also mine doubles as a HD gun, and where I live cops wont make it here until 20+ minutes after the scene. I don't plan on clearing rooms because I am not a professional, but if I need to make it to a family members bedroom I can do so much easier with a shorter upper.
 
Originally posted by Blackops_2

Having a 14.5 mid fills a niche to me in a weapon that you would use for defense, yes it's the shortest length you can have legally without paperwork but it's still a pretty compact package. Sure 16 is a little longer but thats length i don't want.
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You do realize that the minimum barrel length is 16" for a rifle unless you do the paperwork for a SBR?

14.5" inch barrel = SBR

Sure you can always permanently mount a muzzle device to get to 16" but what is the point in that.
 
I have four AR's (two 20", one 18" and one 14.5"). I find that my 20" government profile and 20" pencil barrel AR's handle extremely well since they are light weight and Cav Arms lowers with A1 stocks.
 
16 inch upper with normal flash hider that screws off is 18+ inches long.

14.5 inch upper with permanently installed flash-hider is 16.1 inches long (Legal with no NFA paperwork.).

The point is you get the 14.5 inches of rifling like a lot of Optics, Loads, and ballistic charts call for, and have a shorter package to boot. I don't run a suppressor so I don't see the point for being able to remove the flash hider, so why have 2'' more of gun when I would prefer less, and so would the ballistic reticle in a lot of optics?
 
You do realize that the minimum barrel length is 16" for a rifle unless you do the paperwork for a SBR?

14.5" inch barrel = SBR

Sure you can always permanently mount a muzzle device to get to 16" but what is the point in that.
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Yes i realize that.. I forgot to mention the perma attached.

The point in having a perma attached FH is that i didn't want to have to fill out paper work. Chose the FH of my choosing and i don't ever plan to change it considering it is compatible with the KAC NT4. The point is to still have a 14.5 without paperwork.
 
Snipecatcher

I really like what you have done with that rifle. That is an out of sight stock, could I ask how much? ($250?).

Had a Armlite AR-15 20 inch back in 1965, not that thrilled over them, ok rifle but borringly accurate. Now if you want a little excitement a 24 inch barrel is the way to go. And I want all the distance I can get so a muzzle brake just sucks the gas I want behind the bullet. I would save up and put a Nightforce on that bad boy. Red dots are ok for SD/HD and close in, but if you want distance a scope is a must.

Jim

IMG_0481.jpg
 
Yeah, the stock goes for $250 new:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=2319159496

But I got mine second-hand (but still new in the box) for $180. It is a heavy stock, and really balances out what would be a front heavy rifle with a standard A2 buttstock.

I originally had the rifle set up with a Bushnell 10x scope with turrets, bipod, etc. for long range. When I went to my first 3 gun match, I realized I already had the perfect rifle, just not with a fixed 10x scope. The rifle is very accurate. It would consistently group <1" with handloads. Can't seem to pull that off anymore at 100 yards with the red-dot, but off a bench, I can keep them inside of 3".

A muzzle brake shouldn't affect the velocity one bit. Once the bullet leaves the rifling, it has gained all of the velocity it stands to gain and is just losing it until it hits the ground. I would NOT put a brake on a hunting rifle, but since this rifle is set up for competition only, it's great.
 
My retro 20" Colt 604 clone is quickly becoming my favorite rifle to shoot. Light, simple, and utterly reliable. Here's a pic of it next to my 14.5" midlength. The 20" is about a half a pound lighter.
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You do realize that the minimum barrel length is 16" for a rifle unless you do the paperwork for a SBR?

14.5" inch barrel = SBR vranasaurus
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Wait, there are a bunch of companies that sell 5.56 pistols with 7.5" barrels - do you mean to tell me you have to do BATF paperwork to purchase those?
 
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