Importing a slave class

These immigrants have the cohesion and will power to create that change. The Anglos are lazy, complacent and will be replaced by a more vigorous, virile and potent people.
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Some points you make I agree with however I have worked with illegal and legal immigrants from south of the border, like all people, some good workers, some bad, so do not try to glorify the illegal as I have lived and worked with them over 30 years, the current groups are much more prone to crime,etc. Yes, that is my opinion of what I have seen past 10 years while not true of all there is a marked change.

I agree with you times are changing however to just accept what is thrown at you reminds me of a Texas politician who at one time made the statement if a woman is being (molested) just lie back and enjoy, of course he failed to make the election. While may things are fact like death no need to hasten the event with things you know will kill.
 
Slugthrower,

These immigrants have the cohesion and will power to create that change. The Anglos are lazy, complacent and will be replaced by a more vigorous, virile and potent people.
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That's some nasty bigotry.
 
The Anglos are lazy, complacent and will be replaced by a more vigorous, virile and potent people.
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If they're so vigorous, virile & potent then why is their country of origin in such bad shape? Why don't they apply that vigor, virility & potentcy to fixing their own problems back home?
Tomac
 
There are two principal political parties in the US, the Democrats and the Republicans. Both are run by white people. The white people in the Democratic party exploit racial and ethnic minorities to get political power over the white people in the Republican party. There is an ongoing process which will cause the Democratic party to throw out the white people and become a party of blacks and American aborigines. It's happening now and may be obvious in 50 years.


The importation of 100 million Mexican nationals over the next couple of decades with Z1, Z2, and Z3 visas and whatnot will accelerate the process whereby the Democratic party tosses out the white people. With that many first and second generation immigrants from Mexico (an iron-fist/corrupt, socialist/gangster country), the American blacks will essentially be cut out of the deal and will have about as much representation at the state and national level as Eskimos.


Once the white people in America (and a percentage of blacks, hispanics, and Asians--including South Asians) are effectively represented by one party at the state and national level, people like Ted Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi will have to stay home; the Democratic party won't want them because they're white and the Republican party won't want them because they're fools.


This should get interesting. I'll be 63 in 20 years (if I am spared). Wonder what flag I'll be flying then?
 
There is no glorification of the illegals. Yes, many are in fact evil doers among them. Those people will have to be rooted out. Just as we have bad people already here that are not illegal immigrants, it is a matter of time and a matter of instilling good morals in the general populace. It is a shame that many are going to suffer from the many mistakes of the few. This concept of getting something for little or nothing is what brings our country to a crossroads in it's evolution.

Mexico is drowning in corruption. The United States is treading water and may drown in it's own corruption as well. We the people can stop this from happening through being united in our goals. This culture of division that we keep perpetuating will be our own undoing. It is far too easy to make enemies. We need more friends.

We have to find the things that we all have in common and work toward those goals. Holding liberty above security is one step in my limited mind.

Most just wish to have food on the table and a decent home in which to reside. We really don't need 4 television sets, 3 cars, a boat, 2 motorcycles, 60 firearms, motorized campers, a 3000 sq ft house with 5+ bedrooms, 2 car garage, and all the excess junk that really does nothing to help anyone but the individual person live in luxury. We are greedy, plain and simple. This wish, to have cake and eat it too, is leading a situation that isn't sustainable.

When we supposedly own property that is fully paid for, we find that our government officials have placed an extortion fee upon it we call property taxes. When a retired person's income is no longer able to pay those taxes, from inflation that is driven up by government expenditures, they lose that supposed private property. How many people have lost their homes to private developers that offer the local governments higher taxes dollars from higher assessed values? Government that takes away private property and gives it to private developers, under the guise of eminent domain, only helps destroy that concept of trust and honesty. We would like to think that they are doing good for the country, yet we know they are not. There are too many wrongs to name, it would take a book a thousand or more pages long to convey these things.

I like the idea of people being able to own all those things that they desire. We need to have some moderation in those desires though. Our lust for riches and the delusion that they can come quickly without consequences is helping to create the problems that we face. If people would only help their neighbors, instead of seeking to lord their prosperity over them, they would find that there is plenty to go around and we all will be better off for it. I hate the fact that we are forced to do that sharing by government regulations and redistribution. If people would do it out of the kindness of their own hearts, they might find happiness. No matter how much money you have, happiness will elude you. Riches are in the mind, the heart and in the soul. No one can rob any man of those riches either. This material world we think that will buy us happiness is only spreading misery. Deep inside we all know this, without the need to be told.

We can have liberty, happiness or the pursuit thereof, and no fear for our lives and limb. All that is required is to let go of the greed, jealousy, envy, hatred, distrust, dishonesty, and all those things that politicians use to divide and conquer us. If you feed a working man that is hungry, will he in turn bite your hand, or will you have made a friend that will lay his life down for the love and trust in his heart that you have helped to instill in him? If you care for others more than you do for just yourself, you will find that you have given and you most assuredly will receive. Those that only take and do not give will find themselves alone and without riches in the heart, mind, and soul. Those that are deceitful and seek to use people as a stepping stone to these material riches will only lose those riches in return. What will it take for people to wake up and fulfill the purpose that we were created for in the first place? But I digress... it is too much to expect of mankind.
 
Tomac said:
There's a vast difference between wanting to become an American and colonizing their own culture within our borders. Most of the illegals here consider themselves Mexican and have no real interest in becoming American by assimilating our culture. In essence they are recreating the country of their birth within our country.
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I think this is an important point.

My mother and her family were immigrants who came here after surviving the Nazis. They learned the language and assimilated. There were countless others who did the same. So why is it that anyone who speaks Spanish isn't expected to do so? Why is it "press one for English, dos para Espanol" without options for every other group of immigrants -- Russian, Polish, German, Italian, French, etc., etc.?
 
Ah yes, give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free -- as long as you ain't German or Italian or Polish or Irish or (the current flavor of the week,) Mexican.

The problem isn't immigration -- America is big enough and rich enough to absorb many more immigrants.

The problem isn't even that they come here illegally. True, it's a bad thing to begin your journey here by breaking laws, but the fact that so many are willing to risk so much to come here, even living on the margins of society, indicates their willingness to work hard. That is an attitude this country could use MORE of, not less.

The problem is that we aren't willing to make them become Americans.

Half the people are outraged because these people are dark-skinned folk who don't speak our language, and who are coming here to steal "our" jobs and take "our" women -- and are willing to impose fascistic controls to keep 'em out -- of the sort that would OUTRAGE them if these ideas were proposed by the Brady Bunch or some anti-gun politician.

The other half are so wrapped up in "multicultural" BS they can't see that asking that immigrants learn the language and history of this country is as much for their own good as it is for ours.

Is there no one left willing to stand up for distinctly American values here?
 
Wait...that's right the Anglos took the land by force...
You fighting for what is "right"? Give back the land that was stolen.

That includes the land stolen from every Native American tribe, and from the nation of Mexico.

I am not Mexican, nor is my family... My parents migrated for a better life from a communistic republic... The Mexicans for the most part migrate here for the same goal as everyone that's already in this country, the AMERICAN dream!

Bigotry, that's all this attack from the conservative war machine is.
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WOW...... you sir are a bit of base. In fact, I think left-field is a better description here.

You have no idea what you're talking about and it shows. This has nothing to do with a conservative war machine.... and it has even less to do with the American dream. People come from Mexico to USE our system. They have no interest in becoming Americans; they consider themselves Mexicans in America.

There is absolutely nothing bigoted about stating the truth: WE HAVE MILLIONS OF MEXICAN CRIMINALS IN OUR COUNTRY. THEY HAVE BROKEN OUR LAWS AND THEY ARE TRYING TO CHANGE OUR COUNTRY INTO THEIRS.

Last time I checked that was called an invasion.

As far as stealing land, you may want to read your history. Look up the Mexican-American war and take a look at how it started. After that take a look at how we PURCHASED the land from Mexico when we simply could have taken it.

You should consider getting your facts straight before you post drivel like this.
 
"That includes the land stolen from ... the nation of Mexico."

Of course, the Spanish stole it from the Maya, Aztec, etc. That's why the ruling class speaks Spanish and, for instance, the Maya don't. Mexico recognizes 8 Maya languages.

Who should we give it back to? I know it's a tough question, but it'll give you something to think about. Thinking is good.

John
 
They have no interest in becoming Americans; they consider themselves Mexicans in America.
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You my friend are the absolute knowledge source, you somehow know that every Mexican immigrant does NOT want to become American, this special power of yours is amazing.


There is absolutely nothing bigoted about stating the truth: WE HAVE MILLIONS OF MEXICAN CRIMINALS IN OUR COUNTRY. THEY HAVE BROKEN OUR LAWS AND THEY ARE TRYING TO CHANGE OUR COUNTRY INTO THEIRS.
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Compared to the million(plus or minus a few more million) American, Asian, Armenian, and every other criminal..I guess crimes committed by Mexicans are more of a crime? Who knows what your logic is here, one can only guess.

And as far as changing our beautiful country, this entire nation is built upon change, is it not? Some change is by force, some is by choice, you think the Mexicans enjoyed the strong arm approach to land capture the Americans had? Now my friend...THAT is an invasion...What we have now is by no means the same.

and for the rest of your rant...

http://www.pbs.org/kera/usmexicanwar/index.html

YOU need to check YOUR sources before making retarded remarks.

Forcing someone at gun point to sell you their land at prices YOU set is not a sale, it's still robbery...

--

Now, with that out of the way...

This is the ONLY developed nation I've been to that does not teach a second or sometimes a third language early in a childs life.

Sometimes change is the only thing that is certain.
 
You my friend are the absolute knowledge source, you somehow know that every Mexican immigrant does NOT want to become American, this special power of yours is amazing.
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Your special power is no less amazing... how many of the ILLEGAL immigrants here are trying to become legal American citizens? The fact that they are here illegally by choice may account for the lack of a millions-long line at the INS. Their obvious unwillingness to learn English and assimilate into our culture speaks volumes...
Tomac
 
Ah, ha ha. The experience of the American aborigine is indeed instructive. The white man enormously outnumbered the autochthonous population, subsumed it, and utterly transformed North America into something that reflected his culture, proclivities, and character. Mexican nationals have the potential to do something similar. America is only America because it is inhabited by Americans. If it is inhabited by Mexicans, then it is Mexico. This country can tolerate some unknown amount of immigration and remain this country. Beyond that, it is transformed into some other country, presumably the source country of the immigrants. Mexicans don't want to live in Mexico. Why should Americans? Comprende?
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Though people said the same thing about the Irish when they came. They called them the evil Paddys that had to be locked up and were destroying the country with their immigration and their numbers were a much higher precentage then the Mexican immigrants we see today. Imagine what would be said if there was a big campaign in the papers about how the dirty layabout Paddies should go back to Ireland.

They said the same about Asians and even nowadays when Chinese and Japanese make up more immigrants than anyone they still haven't destroyed america in a 150 years of emigration.

From the end of the 19th century to the mid 20th century we had the same things with German immigrants. Heck a number did all they could to help the Nazis and take over the country. Didn't bring down the Republic.

What we have to take into accounts is nations change as they assimulate new ideas and people into them. The USA of 50-100 years ago would be shocked. Women voting? Black people holding political office? Such ideas would be unthinkable. It be the destruction of the US. Just look at the stink they did to Martin Luther King Jr and other civil rights leaders of the day.

We could go back 150 years or so. Who would think that slaves would be free and have the same rights as everyone else, let alone Native Americans who were considered evil barbarians to be rounded up into reserves or exterminated because they are hurting the USA's white people good lives.

Countries either assimulate ideas of the people and societies merge a little or you end up with a dying country that doesn't fail to evolve and we are stuck living in the Middle Ages.
 
You my friend are the absolute knowledge source, you somehow know that every Mexican immigrant does NOT want to become American, this special power of yours is amazing.
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It really takes no special powers to see hundreds of thousands of "protesters" waving foreign flags in cities across the country. It also takes no special powers to look around myself here in California and see the mexican flags flying on a healthy number of businesses and homes around here. Yet again, no special powers to walk into Wal Mart and hear Spanish spoken as the predominant language.

I'm not saying that every Mexican immigrant does not want to be an American..... if they're truly an immigrant and not an illegal alien they probably do want to be an American. I work with both types; the ones that seem to want to be Americans waited in line and came here legally. Talking with them, there is a feeling that they have something to lose if they do not assimilate and be good citizens. The others I work with keep to themselves, call the rest of us "Americans," and do not hide their distaste for America. They also tend to subscribe to your theory that we owe them some land because we stole it from them (I don't subscribe to that theory as that war was started by Mexican soldiers killing an American patrol shortly after Texas was accepted into the Union); this sounds like good people wanting to become Americans right? :rolleyes:

Compared to the million(plus or minus a few more million) American, Asian, Armenian, and every other criminal..I guess crimes committed by Mexicans are more of a crime? Who knows what your logic is here, one can only guess.
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LOL! This is a rediculous argument. I never said that crimes by a Mexican are any different...... when I start supporting a mass-pardon of every other criminal you can come back and we'll talk about that argument.

And as far as changing our beautiful country, this entire nation is built upon change, is it not? Some change is by force, some is by choice, you think the Mexicans enjoyed the strong arm approach to land capture the Americans had? Now my friend...THAT is an invasion...What we have now is by no means the same.
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You are correct that things tend to change. I resist this change because it means that this country will likely be choked to death by a foreign country. A mass migration of foreign nationals is no different than any other invasion.... the only minor difference is that no shots are being fired (unless you count the ones being taken at our LEO on the border by Mexican gangsters). If Mexico did not want to go to war they shouldn't have attacked American soldiers in Texas. As for that argument, maybe Mexico owed land to the Indians that the Spanish stole it from.

It really does not matter anyway..... there is nary a country in the world who's borders were not established through the acquisition of land from someone elso. No sane argument can be based on land deals of 150+ years ago. This is a red herring and a poor one at that.

This is the ONLY developed nation I've been to that does not teach a second or sometimes a third language early in a childs life.
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I couldn't care in the least. What other countries are doing makes no difference to me, and it makes no difference to the argument at hand.
 
If you put a lot of beer in a cooler with only a little ice the beer doesn't get cold but the ice does melt, a lot of ice with a little beer means the beer will get cold and the ice is pretty much intact.

The same thing applies to peoples and nations, just because a person crosses a border doesn't necessarily mean they become a part of the nation which they just entered. In the old days we didn't have the welfare state we have now, so you sort of had to learn English and become "American" if you wanted to do business with a lot of people, the govt wouldn't go out of it's way to accommodate you so it was in your interest to adapt. It was also different when people had a giant ocean between them in America and their former country, this also helps with assimilation.

During the Great Waves of the 19th century we also let in 1 group and then a different group. The Irish that had initially been crapped on then got to crap on the Italians coming in, this is also very important in the assimilation process:D, it even works in fraternities.

Today we have very different circumstances, it really shouldn't be that much of a surprise to see hordes of people in demonstrations waving Mexican flags chanting "Meh-Hi-Ko" as well as banners telling whites to go back to Europe. Bringing in tens of millions of people, continuously, from a country just next door, then accommodating them by giving them everything in Spanish, will not encourage assimilation.

you think the Mexicans enjoyed the strong arm approach to land capture the Americans had? Now my friend...THAT is an invasion...What we have now is by no means the same

That was a good thing, in fact, the world would have been better off if we took even more land from them. Mexico is and was a corrupt and incompetent cleptocracy that does not allow it's own people to become wealthy. If Texas never left Mexico it would be as poor as Mexico is today, it's not the land that makes wealth, it's what people are able to do with that creates wealth. The more people and land that are under a govt that respects property rights the more prosperity that humans will enjoy.
 
"YOU need to check YOUR sources before making retarded remarks."

Do you have proof he has been diagnosed with mental retardation or are you just stooping to childish name calling? I'm betting on name calling.

John
 
I see evidence of a lot of energy being spent on characterizing Mexican immigrants and their motivations, when the real question is controlling the rate of their immigration and which are considered potential assets, quotas in various categories, meeting the standards for being granted legal entry. It shouldn't be so much a matter of expressing resentments or even bigotry toward Mexicans as it should be a concern for how and if the government controls the flow and deals with those who are already here illegally.

I read an article in Sunday's Washington Post that was quite an education about how the immigration service operates. There is no way they are prepared for a massive increase in responsibility given by new immigration control legislation. For starters, their budget comes entirely from immigration applications. The taxpayer does not finance any foreigners desire to come to the US, the process to come here, or the infrastructure to support it. The service is also in disarray since being moved to Homeland Security from the Justice Department. Perhaps the saddest part was the explanation of how increases in application fees do not help one obtain legal entry. They instead go to financing a $500 million budget deficit and clearing a massive backlog.

It seems to me that if the economy truly needs labor resources, government funding is going to be in the picture at some point. It will surely be needed if new legislation saddles the department with overwhelming new responsibilities. I believe that means that if legislation involves an unfunded mandate in effect, nothing will happen, but Congress will be taking credit for addressing the problem. In the short term, I think that will mean politically that Democrats appear to become the champions of dealing with illegal immigration to those who don't pay attention to details and just get the spin. Mexican heritage voters become instant Democrats, predictably providing payback for the pandering.
 
It's not race issue to me. Illegal imigration is what it's called. ILLEGAL. And you can't tell me it's not hurting our economy. If you wan't to move here, great. Learn English and pay taxes like millions of other immigrants who came is search of the American dream did. People like my Grandparents.

Here are some numbers for you on what illegals cost YOU the American taxpayer:

$2.1 billion to lock up illegals in prisons
$2.5 billion in Medicaid
$2.2 billion in uninsured medical costs
$1.4 billion in federal aid to public schools
$1.9 billion in food stamps, WIC and school lunches

If we deported them all, we could afford a natonwide sweep from Maine to LA, and probably build and power the Jurassic Park T-rex electric fence along the border. Cut down Welfare and you'll have new workers for "crappy jobs". And you'll keep out terrorists coming in from Mexico.
 
Here are some numbers for you on what illegals cost YOU the American taxpayer:

$2.1 billion to lock up illegals in prisons
$2.5 billion in Medicaid
$2.2 billion in uninsured medical costs
$1.4 billion in federal aid to public schools
$1.9 billion in food stamps, WIC and school lunches
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Crikey, you realize how low those numbers are?

Only $10 Billion dollars?

let's see, with a GDP of $12.96 trillion and a population of 301 Million (so GDP per capital of $43,500) that is like 7/100 of a percent of GDP, or $33 per person.

Heck, even just looking at our annual budget of $2.66 Trillion, that's only .367%. What else can we compare to see if .376% of the budget is a lot?


So the question of whether the price of lettuce goes up by $.31 means that there is a break-even point if you eat a salad twice a week.

Not actually arguing a position, just pointing out that the impact isn't as large as you think with those numbers.

Edit: Just to put things into perspective, $33/year spent towards paying off your personal portion of the national debt already accrued mean you pay it off in 885 years.


All numbers are from the CIA factbook and the debt clock which is conservative as it doesn't include promises to pay SSA and other benefits as debt.
 
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