Important point nobody mentions in the CZ guns Decocker vs Safety issue

Aguila Blanca said:
I'm still trying to figure out how carrying with the hammer down could possibly be more dangerous than carrying with the hammer at half-cock. The CZ-75B has a firing pin safety, so the gun can't fire if dropped in either position. Beyond that, doesn't the 75B have a floating firing pin? I think it does, which means you could drop it on the hammer with NO firing pin safety and it still couldn't go off.

What am I missing?
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It's not the carrying or potential drops that are the problems. It's the lowering of the hammer. You've to pull the trigger to manually decock, then fully control the hammer on its way down. Also, pulling the trigger defeats the safeties. There's that and the fact that many people have a problem even considering decocking (there IS a risk of ND in manually decocking)...Half cock is an option for those that don't want to lower the hammer fully.

The OP described things pretty well, IMO.
 
unixfool said:
...There's that and the fact that many people have a problem even considering decocking (there IS a risk of ND in manually decocking)...Half cock is an option for those that don't want to lower the hammer fully.
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The topic of manually decocking a handgun is sort of like the topic of the boogey man -- the idea is far worse than the reality.

Everyone seems to be afraid of the potential problems that happen while manually decocking, but many, many more problems (and negligent discharges) occur during other gun-handling adventures than during manual decocking...
 
Walt Sherrill said:
The topic of manually decocking a handgun is sort of like the topic of the boogey man -- the idea is far worse than the reality.



Everyone seems to be afraid of the potential problems that happen while manually decocking, but many, many more problems (and negligent discharges) occur during other gun-handling adventures than during manual decocking...
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If it doesn't bother you, then it doesn't bother you. For many people, it does. Comparing it to the boogeyman does nothing. Discussing it does a lot more. Many people don't open carry for their reasons while many do (for their reasons)....neither is bad. The same can be said of manually decocking (or not). ALL of it is subjective.
 
Sorry. I do not accept that carrying in the half-cocked position is safer than hammer fully down. Yeah, I know you read it on the Internet ...

You wrote that carrying at half cock is "in fact" safer, so apparently you accept that as fact ... but what establishes that as a fact?
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No my friend... I am not making it "a fact" because I read it on the internet. I cited 2 sources on the original post. One is the rami´s manual. The other source (totally debatable) a guy in other forum saying what a CZ armorer told him.

I don't remember saying that carrying half cocked is safer, but what I meant is that it is safer to decock to the half cocked position than fully decock.

Beyond that, doesn't the 75B have a floating firing pin?
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Reading the manual I think it does... I don't fully understand what it is. But in any case if you have the trigger depressed and the hammer slips off your fingers every safety is disengaged....
 
It's not the carrying or potential drops that are the problems. It's the lowering of the hammer. You've to pull the trigger to manually decock, then fully control the hammer on its way down. Also, pulling the trigger defeats the safeties. There's that and the fact that many people have a problem even considering decocking (there IS a risk of ND in manually decocking)...Half cock is an option for those that don't want to lower the hammer fully.

The OP described things pretty well, IMO.
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Wel... that exactly...
 
While my original post was safety during decocking and not during carrying... I would also like to discuss the safety features on the rami....

The Rami´s manual says about its safety features:

Inertia Firing Pin
The design of the firing pin prevents the firing pin from protruding through the face of the slide when the hammer is in its rest position. This eliminates the possibility of a discharge when a loaded pistol is dropped on the hammer.

Firing Pin Safety
The firing pin safety keeps the firing pin blocked until the trigger is pulled. This safety device minimizes the risk of accidental discharge through mishandling such as when a loaded pistol is dropped.

Safety Stop on the Hammer
A half-cock safety notch is on the hammer so as to prevent it from striking the firing pin when the hammer is manually cocked, and a thumb could slip. When the hammer is on the safety stop, it is not leaning against the firing pin stop, but its position is further back.

Can anyone explain to me the first one? I understand the other 2...

So in fact carrying cocked and locked in a good holster is the safer option...

the truth will set you free :cool:

We have 4 safeties preventing the hammer to strike the firing pin when cocked and locked...
 
unixfool said:
It's not the carrying or potential drops that are the problems. It's the lowering of the hammer. You've to pull the trigger to manually decock, then fully control the hammer on its way down. Also, pulling the trigger defeats the safeties. There's that and the fact that many people have a problem even considering decocking (there IS a risk of ND in manually decocking)...Half cock is an option for those that don't want to lower the hammer fully.
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But you also have to pull the trigger to lower the hammer to the half-cocked position, so what's the difference? We're discussing the models with the manual thumb safety, not the ones with the decocker.

Bacha said:
Inertia Firing Pin
The design of the firing pin prevents the firing pin from protruding through the face of the slide when the hammer is in its rest position. This eliminates the possibility of a discharge when a loaded pistol is dropped on the hammer.

...

Can anyone explain to me the first one? I understand the other 2...
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An inertia firing pin is too short to make physical contact with the face of the hammer and the primer at the same time. The firing pin is held back by a spring. When the hammer falls, it strikes the firing pin hard enough to transfer energy into the firing pin and send it forward, hopefully with enough energy to light off the primer.

Same principle as these little toys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JadO3RuOJGU#t=162

What the firing pin safety does is to block this forward movement of the firing pin unless the trigger has been pulled to disengage the safety lock. So if the hammer should somehow fall without the trigger having been pulled, the hammer could strike the firing pin with full force but the firing pin still could not impact the primer.
 
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But you also have to pull the trigger to lower the hammer to the half-cocked position, so what's the difference?
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Because you can almost immediately let off the trigger (re-enabling the firing pin safety) after lowering the hammer just a fraction if you're only going to let the hammer go to half cock. If the hammer does slip after you've let off the trigger, nothing bad happens for two reasons. The half-cock will catch it and the firing pin safety is a backup.

If you're going all the way to hammer down, you have to keep the trigger depressed for much more of time you're lowering the hammer and you have to lower the hammer farther. Which means more potential for a slip that would result in the gun firing because the trigger is being held to the rear during much more of the process.
 
JohnKSa said:
Because you can almost immediately let off the trigger (re-enabling the firing pin safety) after lowering the hammer just a fraction if you're only going to let the hammer go to half cock. If the hammer does slip after you've let off the trigger, nothing bad happens for two reasons. The half-cock will catch it and the firing pin safety is a backup.



If you're going all the way to hammer down, you have to keep the trigger depressed for much more of time you're lowering the hammer and you have to lower the hammer farther. Which means more potential for a slip that would result in the gun firing because the trigger is being held to the rear during much more of the process.
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THIS^^
 
Because you can almost immediately let off the trigger (re-enabling the firing pin safety) after lowering the hammer just a fraction if you're only going to let the hammer go to half cock. If the hammer does slip after you've let off the trigger, nothing bad happens for two reasons. The half-cock will catch it and the firing pin safety is a backup.

If you're going all the way to hammer down, you have to keep the trigger depressed for much more of time you're lowering the hammer and you have to lower the hammer farther. Which means more potential for a slip that would result in the gun firing because the trigger is being held to the rear during much more of the process.
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My point since the beginning... :-) Wanted to open a thread about it because I realized of this learning about the safety features in the RAMI and never saw it mentioned in any of the thread I found about decocking a safety model.
 
An inertia firing pin is too short to make physical contact with the face of the hammer and the primer at the same time. The firing pin is held back by a spring. When the hammer falls, it strikes the firing pin hard enough to transfer energy into the firing pin and send it forward, hopefully with enough energy to light off the primer.
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Thank you for the explanation...!
 
"Fun fact" for you guys... the safety model of the RAMI costs $980 here in my country... and the decocker model $1493...

Now I know "the only thing" the decocker does is lowering the hammer to half cocked and I loose the capability of running cocked and locked...

Maybe this is why I was so surprised discovering this :-)
 
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