Immigrants Sue Wendys
- Thread starter Doug.38PR
- Start date
If I am reading this right the illegal aliens were filing for what amounted to a legal amnesty under the law. It sounds like that program had a deadline. As long as you had an application in you were exempt from illegal status until you application was approved or denied. The workers were paying for this service. These folks were trying to do the right thing. The law did exist that granted them a protected status. Sad deal all the way around. Think that Wendy's and the law firm ought to be held liable for failing to live up to an agreement.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Based on what I see here and what I've read elsewhere, I don't blame them a bit for suing. The company hired them knowing it was getting cheap labor; they deducted money from their checks to pay for legal expenses; they never followed up.
They owe these people now.
I've changed the title of the thread to something a bit less rancorous...also a bit more factual. As far as these workers were concerned they'd jumped thru all the hoops and paid the fees; that makes them immigrants (at least by intent), not "illegal invaders".
Rich
They owe these people now.
I've changed the title of the thread to something a bit less rancorous...also a bit more factual. As far as these workers were concerned they'd jumped thru all the hoops and paid the fees; that makes them immigrants (at least by intent), not "illegal invaders".
Rich
I'll ask the obvious question, what's the USA in that district doing about that?
Rich Lucibella
Staff
KS-
I don't think they were illegal. They thought they were paying for a Govt recognized path to citizenship; or, at least, work visa. The only became "illegal" when the deadline passed and the paperwork they were paying for failed to be filed.
It's real important that we properly distinguish illegals coming here to commit crimes or get on the public dole from those who come, get jobs, pay taxes, pay social security and attempt to work thru legal channels.
Sounds like that's what we have here.
Rich
I don't think they were illegal. They thought they were paying for a Govt recognized path to citizenship; or, at least, work visa. The only became "illegal" when the deadline passed and the paperwork they were paying for failed to be filed.
It's real important that we properly distinguish illegals coming here to commit crimes or get on the public dole from those who come, get jobs, pay taxes, pay social security and attempt to work thru legal channels.
Sounds like that's what we have here.
Rich
Wendys hired the illegals because(assumption) the law stated that they could apply for a protected status when hired on or before a certain date. That why Wendys contracted the lawfirm. Perfectly legal at the time. However, I think it might be worth a look at what Wendys intentions were since they did not followup with law firm. I dont know about the law that was used. Did it require any actions on the part of the employer to check that an application was submitted so they could let the person keep working till the application was approved or denied? The law probably laid out who was responsible for what. If the law required that Wendys check to make sure an application was on file to retain employment then is addition to the law suit they should be hit with any penalties for employing illegals. All that depends upon what is specified in the law and I have not read it.
Rich, I will give Wendy's the benefit of the doubt and assume they were legal guest workers.
BTW, who the heck is handing out the visas (H1Bs?) for Wendy's anywho? I cannot get a microbiologist from India to Purdue without full contact sparring in front of an ALJ in Chicago, but Wendy's gets a bunch of people in to make Frostys and chicken sammiches?
This smells like a broker deal like we have in the large factories here. However, I admit I do not have all the facts.
BTW, who the heck is handing out the visas (H1Bs?) for Wendy's anywho? I cannot get a microbiologist from India to Purdue without full contact sparring in front of an ALJ in Chicago, but Wendy's gets a bunch of people in to make Frostys and chicken sammiches?
This smells like a broker deal like we have in the large factories here. However, I admit I do not have all the facts.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
KS-
I'm not certain what the program is, but I think the key is in the word "sponsorship". US laws are relaxed in the areas of work visas and the like when the worker has an actual "Sponsor", willing to guarantee them a job and insurance.
I know very little of this, but have brushed up against it in dealing with immigrants here in Florida.
Rich
I'm not certain what the program is, but I think the key is in the word "sponsorship". US laws are relaxed in the areas of work visas and the like when the worker has an actual "Sponsor", willing to guarantee them a job and insurance.
I know very little of this, but have brushed up against it in dealing with immigrants here in Florida.
Rich
Well, I find it galling that people who have knowingly broken the law to get into this country, think that they are somehow entitled to become citizens or be exempt from the law and if they don't get that, they think they are free to sue in the courts as though they were citizens. (I do agree with the sentiment that Wendy's knew they were hiring illegals and wanting to get cheap laber :barf: ) This whole thing is a joke.
Rich Lucibella,
The article says that they are illegal.
Yup. A joke, it is.
I've read and understood and sort of agreed with the defenders of the suit, here (posted above) but,
I also agree with Doug -- the whole thing got rolling with WHAT?
The fact that these people came into the U.S.A. as illegal immigrants in the first place.
That, I feel, should be the FIRST THING that a court considers when hearing any case involving illegal immigrants. I don't care if it's a slip-and-fall liability case where an illegal immigrant broke his ankle in a Walmart while shopping -- the court should be saying, "Wait a minute, what the hell were you even doing here in the first place?!"
-azurefly
I've read and understood and sort of agreed with the defenders of the suit, here (posted above) but,
I also agree with Doug -- the whole thing got rolling with WHAT?
The fact that these people came into the U.S.A. as illegal immigrants in the first place.
That, I feel, should be the FIRST THING that a court considers when hearing any case involving illegal immigrants. I don't care if it's a slip-and-fall liability case where an illegal immigrant broke his ankle in a Walmart while shopping -- the court should be saying, "Wait a minute, what the hell were you even doing here in the first place?!"
-azurefly
If they were illegal but applied for the program under the law in good faith and Wendys gave them jobs on that basis then they are no longer illegal are they?
There is a big difference between somebody making a good faith attempt to comply with the law and someone who is making no attempt to comply.
So the immigrant status should be a non issue in the civil case.
There is a big difference between somebody making a good faith attempt to comply with the law and someone who is making no attempt to comply.
So the immigrant status should be a non issue in the civil case.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Yes they are....now. Why are they illegal? Their employer (or attorney) failed to honor a contractual obligation.
But it's not like they're suing for citizenship. They're suing for damages. Why? Because they allege they have been damaged, having attempted to do everything legally and above board and having carried out their obligations under that contractual arrangement.
Are we now arguing that foreign nationals should not have the right to sue American companies that have screwed up? I hope not.
Rich
Wow, I am actually siding with the Mexicans on this one. They got hosed after following the law.
However they got here they are some of the few who were following a clear path to citizenship. They got hosed though and it is a pretty lousy example for others who plan on doing things legally.
However they got here they are some of the few who were following a clear path to citizenship. They got hosed though and it is a pretty lousy example for others who plan on doing things legally.
Well before they entered into this contract, they entered the country illegally, and got jobs illegally (which makes Wendy's complicit, btw), did they not?
They did everything "legally and above board and ...carried out their obligations" EXCEPT for the part about sneaking into the country illegally.
"They got hosed after following the law" after breaking the law.
-azurefly
Are you going to turn yourself in next time you commit a traffic violation and demand that they give you a ticket?
Yes they came in illegally but attempted to make that right or remedy the situation under the law. Now they are illegal because of someone's failure to do the right thing. I dont think of justice as being close minded and simply looking at something as being legal or illegal. Justice should be to make the outcome right and to enforce the law. That is why there are defenses under the law for certain actions.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
I am not at all willing to grant this as fact, given the news I've seen. They may have been on Visa's; they may have been on passport. Where is it written that they entered illegally?
And even if they did enter illegally, who cares at this point? They attempted to become productive, working people in a nation that prides itself on providing opportunities for ALL the immigrants that made us great. A guy who comes here and works NINE YEARS for the same fast food chain hardly strikes me as a slacker; I'd be proud to have him as a neighbor.....or a citizen.
Rich
stephen426
New member
Based upon the article, Wendy's had an obligation to file the required form on a timely basis. The medical malpractice analogy is a very accurate one. The client (who we will assume was legal at the time due to employer sponsership) was paying the attorneys (through automated payroll deduction) a fee to perform a duty. The attorney's failure to properly perform their duty caused serious financial and legal harm to their clients. I believe that Wendy's had to fire the employees afte discovering that they were illegal, but I believe that the law firm should be held liable for the damages. It is the same as if an attorney advises you to take some action yet failed to properly study the documentation or warn you of potential risks. This one should go to the workers.
stephen426
New member
Rich Lucibella said:
Rich, I am in the fast food industry and I fully agree than many immigrants are hard working people that more than deserve the opportunity to stay in this country. The problem is that until there is a law put in place, they are illegal. It is not fair for other immigrants from other countries who have to patiently wait to come to this country just because they cannot simply slip across the border.
I hope that we do come up with a way to allow illegals to gain legal status in the U.S.. Maybe President Bush's temporary work visa idea might be the start to the legalization of these "invisible" people. The only way I see things changing is be cracking down on illegal employment through serious fines and possible prison time for repeat offenders. This is the tactic used in Spain (where the company I work for recently opened a few restaurants) and it seems to be working some what. I will never be 100% since some will always choose to risk the penalties to save on labor costs and labor taxes.
Currently, the liability does not lie with the employer to verify that the identification presented is genuine. Our company uses a PEO (profession employment organization) which does screen the names and social security numbers. If we did discover that the information provided was fraudulent, it clearly states that we, as the employer, have the right to immediately terminate them. Until the laws get tougher, the games will continue. It will be a sad day when it does occur since (as you mentioned) many of these immigrants are very reliable and hard working individuals who appreciate their jobs. It makes me want to puke my guts out :barf: thinking about having to employ lazy, unreliable people who don't give a crap about their jobs just because they are blessed to be born in this country.