Illinois Lawmaker proposes tax on ammo
- Thread starter ltc444
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checkmyswag
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If you vote against this, you'll be accused of "not funding emergency rooms".
ltc444 said:
Are they going to tax autos, atv's, motorcycles, etc. to fund the trauma centers too? Those activities put a lot more people in the emergency room than guns.
And how exactly are they going to use those funds to reduce gun violence? Gun buy back programs? Reduce poverty? Increase job opportunities? Social programs? More LEO's? Better trained/equipped SWAT teams?
BS!
Nothing more than anti-gun hocus.
I believe Illinois already has a tax on ammo. It goes to the Department of Natural Resources. It’s what could be called a hidden tax that is applied before the product even hit’s the shelf. Then it’s taxed again with a sales tax, which I believe to be illegal, the "tax on a tax" thing. Now we get yet another tax?
Thought about this for some time.
Illinois shooters need to attack this as a wild life funding issue. Remind your nature buddys that Game management is paid for by taxes on hunting and fishing equipment including ammunition.
Warn them that the reduction in ammo sales will caused by the reduction of sales will cause a lose of resources to protect the nongame species including the Bald Eagle and other favorite symbols of PITA.
Illinois shooters need to attack this as a wild life funding issue. Remind your nature buddys that Game management is paid for by taxes on hunting and fishing equipment including ammunition.
Warn them that the reduction in ammo sales will caused by the reduction of sales will cause a lose of resources to protect the nongame species including the Bald Eagle and other favorite symbols of PITA.
checkmyswag
New member
I moved to TX.
Way better gun laws and 0% state income tax vs 5% in Illinoise.
Way better gun laws and 0% state income tax vs 5% in Illinoise.
Prof Young
New member
Believe me we are fighting it.
Shooters:
As an Illinoian I gotta tell ya we look with envy at the rest of the states. We have to have a FOID (Firearms Owner Identification) card to buy guns and ammo. Our state legislature is filled with Chicago liberals who think the only thing guns are used for is crime, and don't know that there is any part of Illinois South of Chicago. We have a law about having guns in cases in our vehicles making it felony . . . yes a felony . . . if you have a gun in your vehicle that's not in a case. They don't seem to understand that the anti-gun laws don't stop the gang bangers, and only make life harder for the sportsman and hunters. Fortunately there are enough intelligent conservatives in the state legislature that it hasn't gone too far yet. I wish someone would enter a bill to make Chicago its own state so they'd leave the rest of us alone. Don't know where we'd be without the NRA.
Live Well, be safe.
Prof Young
Shooters:
As an Illinoian I gotta tell ya we look with envy at the rest of the states. We have to have a FOID (Firearms Owner Identification) card to buy guns and ammo. Our state legislature is filled with Chicago liberals who think the only thing guns are used for is crime, and don't know that there is any part of Illinois South of Chicago. We have a law about having guns in cases in our vehicles making it felony . . . yes a felony . . . if you have a gun in your vehicle that's not in a case. They don't seem to understand that the anti-gun laws don't stop the gang bangers, and only make life harder for the sportsman and hunters. Fortunately there are enough intelligent conservatives in the state legislature that it hasn't gone too far yet. I wish someone would enter a bill to make Chicago its own state so they'd leave the rest of us alone. Don't know where we'd be without the NRA.
Live Well, be safe.
Prof Young
I'm not worried about these things becoming law, we will oppose this legislation and we will win.
BTW if anyone on this forum is in Illinois and has not made arrangments yet to go to IGOLD, it is your chance to show your legislator that you are serious about these issues - serious enough to come see your state senator and state representative in person in Springfield:
http://igold.isra.org/
Click on the buses link to find a bus near you.
IGOLD facebook event:
http://www.facebook.com/events/183768105065276/
P.S. Try not to get into arguments on the bus like .45 vs 9mm or AR vs AK, or what shot size is best for home defense, or "is Taurus any good?" or "I can buy 6 Hi-Points for what you paid for your single H&K"
See you there !!!
BTW if anyone on this forum is in Illinois and has not made arrangments yet to go to IGOLD, it is your chance to show your legislator that you are serious about these issues - serious enough to come see your state senator and state representative in person in Springfield:
http://igold.isra.org/
Click on the buses link to find a bus near you.
IGOLD facebook event:
http://www.facebook.com/events/183768105065276/
P.S. Try not to get into arguments on the bus like .45 vs 9mm or AR vs AK, or what shot size is best for home defense, or "is Taurus any good?" or "I can buy 6 Hi-Points for what you paid for your single H&K"
See you there !!!
Like any anti-gun scheme, this isn't about raising money for trauma centers.
It's about establishing the tax on ammo.
The trauma center "purpose" is a plausible excuse for doing it.
Someone take a look at the law and any related statutes to see where it is specified that money collected is to be specifically paid out to trauma centers. Next look at any limitations on who benefits from the money. Some 20 year old drug dealer with the money to drive a BMW 745i should not be getting state assistance.
A special tax, in lieu of or in addition to Illinois sales tax could cause the state to run afoul of the Constitution.
It would be similar to Minneapolis Star v. Minnesota Comm'r - 460 U.S. 575 (1983).
In Minneapolis, the Minnesota legislature exempted newspapers from sales tax on materials to produce the paper until 1971. It then established a new tax on newsprint and ink -- necessary ingredients for the press -- which was separate from the general sales tax. In fact, it was slightly lower than the general sales tax. Regardless, the U.S. Supreme court struck down the tax as unconstitutional.
It's not hard to exchange references regarding printing & 1A issues to firearms, ammo and 2A issues.
What the court said was that a separate tax scheme allows the legislature the opportunity for abuse and unconstitutional control. Where increasing a sales tax to 1,000% of the retail cost is politically unfeasible, increasing a special use tax on a limited group of producers, products or materials could be easily done.
Our 2A rights exist not only for personal protection against thieves and robbers, but against government tyranny - an abundant historical fact. If Illinois pushes a special tax on ammunition and/or firearms that is separate from the general sales tax, then we fall right back into the problem noted in Minneapolis:
...the political constraints that prevent a legislature from imposing crippling taxes of general applicability are weakened, and the threat of burdensome taxes becomes acute. That threat can operate as effectively as a censor to check political dissent by the people, thus undercutting the basic assumption of our political system that The People, with their right to arms and revolt against tyranny, will often serve as an important restraint on government.
Illinois will claim a "compelling interest" in controlling crime and recover costs of injuries due to criminal use of firearms as justification. That justification cannot withstand scrutiny however. Existing laws have had little or no impact on controlling crime. Despite special ID cards to purchase arms and ammunition, criminals easily obtain them through illegal means. It is thus unlikely that those responsible for crimes -- criminals -- would pay the tax on illegally obtain ammunition. It would fall to the legitimate citizen to bear the burden of the taxes. Not only would this be taxation on the exercise of a right to keep and bear arms (bear also implies being able to use), it would serve to make forceful political dissent against government tyranny all but impossible.
It's about establishing the tax on ammo.
The trauma center "purpose" is a plausible excuse for doing it.
Someone take a look at the law and any related statutes to see where it is specified that money collected is to be specifically paid out to trauma centers. Next look at any limitations on who benefits from the money. Some 20 year old drug dealer with the money to drive a BMW 745i should not be getting state assistance.
A special tax, in lieu of or in addition to Illinois sales tax could cause the state to run afoul of the Constitution.
It would be similar to Minneapolis Star v. Minnesota Comm'r - 460 U.S. 575 (1983).
In Minneapolis, the Minnesota legislature exempted newspapers from sales tax on materials to produce the paper until 1971. It then established a new tax on newsprint and ink -- necessary ingredients for the press -- which was separate from the general sales tax. In fact, it was slightly lower than the general sales tax. Regardless, the U.S. Supreme court struck down the tax as unconstitutional.
It's not hard to exchange references regarding printing & 1A issues to firearms, ammo and 2A issues.
What the court said was that a separate tax scheme allows the legislature the opportunity for abuse and unconstitutional control. Where increasing a sales tax to 1,000% of the retail cost is politically unfeasible, increasing a special use tax on a limited group of producers, products or materials could be easily done.
Our 2A rights exist not only for personal protection against thieves and robbers, but against government tyranny - an abundant historical fact. If Illinois pushes a special tax on ammunition and/or firearms that is separate from the general sales tax, then we fall right back into the problem noted in Minneapolis:
...the political constraints that prevent a legislature from imposing crippling taxes of general applicability are weakened, and the threat of burdensome taxes becomes acute. That threat can operate as effectively as a censor to check political dissent by the people, thus undercutting the basic assumption of our political system that The People, with their right to arms and revolt against tyranny, will often serve as an important restraint on government.
Illinois will claim a "compelling interest" in controlling crime and recover costs of injuries due to criminal use of firearms as justification. That justification cannot withstand scrutiny however. Existing laws have had little or no impact on controlling crime. Despite special ID cards to purchase arms and ammunition, criminals easily obtain them through illegal means. It is thus unlikely that those responsible for crimes -- criminals -- would pay the tax on illegally obtain ammunition. It would fall to the legitimate citizen to bear the burden of the taxes. Not only would this be taxation on the exercise of a right to keep and bear arms (bear also implies being able to use), it would serve to make forceful political dissent against government tyranny all but impossible.
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