Illegal Alien Problem Unsolvable?...hogwash!!
- Thread starter aspen1964
- Start date
The blatant racism of the pro-illegal-alien faction really bothers me. None of the advocates I've read and heard propose that the illegal aliens be paid the same as legal residents. Why? Greed and racism. They know businesses would not hire illegals if they had to pay them decent wages. The advocates want a source of cheap labor to tend their lawns and homes and children. It's not okay to pay white, brown, or yellow people dirt cheap wages, but it's okay to do so for brown people.
Illegals will do work Americans won't do? I can find dozens of legal residents in the phonebook who will pick up the dog exhaust in my backyard. Why? Because they get paid decent wages. According to reports I've read, some 75% of people working in the agriculture business in the US are legal residents. Granted, they aren't all working in the fields, but they--and the dog-exhaust cleaners--are doing the jobs that Americans supposedly won't do. What Americans really won't do are jobs that pay Third-World wages under Third-World working conditions.
Many of these jobs would be good starting jobs for legal residents seeking to work their way out of poverty. But the presence of illegals forces the wages down while at the same time protecting employers from legal actions stemming from abuse. Again, greed and racism. To hell with our minority citizens; let's hire illegals instead and save some cash!:barf:
Just a little bit of research will uncover plenty of stories of abuse of the illegals as they work, such as crop dusters spraying pesticides on them as they toil in the fields. Legal residents won't work under those conditions. And they'll file lawsuits. Illegals risk deportation if they complain. Again, greed and racism.
Will your food costs skyrocket? Hardly, given that only 25% or so of the labor force would get paid higher wages if ag-businesses were forced to hire legal residents. Plus, we get a lot of food shipped in from other countries, so there would be competitive pressures to keep prices low.
What about the illegals being basically law-abiding citizens? They broke the law coming here, they break the law every day staying here, and they break the law every day that they work a job here. If they drive without a valid licence, they break the law everytime they are on the road. If they claim to have a SSN, they're breaking the law again, and sometimes the legal resident whose SSN is being fraudulently used gets into real hassles.
How do you get them to leave when there are too many to deport? To start with, arrest employers who hire them. I've read reports that the government has a collection of some 9 million problematic SSNs. It's a good bet that most of those belong to illegals, so that would be a good place to find suspect employers and do some investigating. Once you start arresting employers, other employers will begin to hire legal residents instead. Once the jobs dry up, most of the illegals will take themselves back home.
Legal immigration, yes. Illegal aliens and the establishment of a permanent, racist sub-class of serfdom that saps jobs from our lower-economic citizens, no.
Illegals will do work Americans won't do? I can find dozens of legal residents in the phonebook who will pick up the dog exhaust in my backyard. Why? Because they get paid decent wages. According to reports I've read, some 75% of people working in the agriculture business in the US are legal residents. Granted, they aren't all working in the fields, but they--and the dog-exhaust cleaners--are doing the jobs that Americans supposedly won't do. What Americans really won't do are jobs that pay Third-World wages under Third-World working conditions.
Many of these jobs would be good starting jobs for legal residents seeking to work their way out of poverty. But the presence of illegals forces the wages down while at the same time protecting employers from legal actions stemming from abuse. Again, greed and racism. To hell with our minority citizens; let's hire illegals instead and save some cash!:barf:
Just a little bit of research will uncover plenty of stories of abuse of the illegals as they work, such as crop dusters spraying pesticides on them as they toil in the fields. Legal residents won't work under those conditions. And they'll file lawsuits. Illegals risk deportation if they complain. Again, greed and racism.
Will your food costs skyrocket? Hardly, given that only 25% or so of the labor force would get paid higher wages if ag-businesses were forced to hire legal residents. Plus, we get a lot of food shipped in from other countries, so there would be competitive pressures to keep prices low.
What about the illegals being basically law-abiding citizens? They broke the law coming here, they break the law every day staying here, and they break the law every day that they work a job here. If they drive without a valid licence, they break the law everytime they are on the road. If they claim to have a SSN, they're breaking the law again, and sometimes the legal resident whose SSN is being fraudulently used gets into real hassles.
How do you get them to leave when there are too many to deport? To start with, arrest employers who hire them. I've read reports that the government has a collection of some 9 million problematic SSNs. It's a good bet that most of those belong to illegals, so that would be a good place to find suspect employers and do some investigating. Once you start arresting employers, other employers will begin to hire legal residents instead. Once the jobs dry up, most of the illegals will take themselves back home.
Legal immigration, yes. Illegal aliens and the establishment of a permanent, racist sub-class of serfdom that saps jobs from our lower-economic citizens, no.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with globalism... to a point I think it is a good thing. But this illegal alien thing needs to be taken care of. I say give them five years to pay their back taxes, make them learn to speak and write in English, and test them on it. Require "English as a LANGUAGE" classes... not second language. If they can't cut the mustard in those five years by doing all those things... Adios... *ehem* Good Bye.
"and sometimes the legal resident whose SSN is being fraudulently used gets into real hassles". yeah..go ahead and ask me why my credit is now crap and I had to put a fraud alert on ALL my accounts and protect against future use of my name and ssn..its no big surprise,theres 100+ million more ssns where mine came from.these people are buying the numbers from someone and using them to get employment,loans and credit and purchasing anything that requires an ID... where a ssn is required.maybe the employers know that its fake, maybe not but either way,it benefits them as they showed the ID at hire.theyre off the hook.
I think in spite of a crackdown, there will still be people sneaking in with stolen ssns and fake ID,its a very profitable market this human trade,moreso than illegal narcotics these days.everyone has their hands in the cookie jar from the coyotes to the ones politically and financially motivated in keeping it going.guess what else? the ones being exploited are the illegals and they dont even know it.
I think in spite of a crackdown, there will still be people sneaking in with stolen ssns and fake ID,its a very profitable market this human trade,moreso than illegal narcotics these days.everyone has their hands in the cookie jar from the coyotes to the ones politically and financially motivated in keeping it going.guess what else? the ones being exploited are the illegals and they dont even know it.
A contractor doing work for the company I work for was busted for using illegals. They where using illegal labor to lay tile and paying them a fraction of the wages that a legal worker would get. It is simple greed. A US worker would be glad to work laying tile, but not at the pissant wage the illegals where getting.
awhile back, not far from here was a factory that got busted for hiring illegals.over half of the workforce at that factory were illegal.guess what..after the illegals were gone,the vacancies were filled quickly by americans,a friend of mine works there now where before,he couldnt find a decent paying job.he had even applied there before but was never called in for an interview.interesting eh?
it is solvable,we just have to see how far up it goes.the banks that are funneling the illegals money back to mexico have a big hand in it.senators who want the extra votes,politicans who want the money from big business,business for the cheap labor and the bleeding hearts just because thats what they do.
it is solvable,we just have to see how far up it goes.the banks that are funneling the illegals money back to mexico have a big hand in it.senators who want the extra votes,politicans who want the money from big business,business for the cheap labor and the bleeding hearts just because thats what they do.
+1. A few years back, Bill J. Clinton caught hell over his Mexico Bailout plan. I have no respect for The Great Fornicator and his antics in the Offal Office, but let's be fair: The dollars of illegals that go to Mexico now are simply Bush's stealth mode Mexico Bailout.
Ask yourself why big-monied interests wanted the first Mexico Bailout, and you'll have the same answers as to why big monied interests want to continue this second Mexico Bailout. Same product, different packaging.
Harley Quinn
Moderator
I am not so sure it is Racism...
I am thinking it is Nationalism.
Many are abusing the system. The illegals, are just that.
How about this for a scenario.
You don't make as much money as your neighbor. You want his job in the union, you have only been there one year and don't have the senority he has.
You go out and work on the side and take work from anyone who will pay at any price (against the rules of the union). They kick you out and take all your benefits and never give them back because you broke a rule.
Your neighbor helped you get in the union in the first place, he calls you a scab. Now that is how you have to work as a scab.
Some are against unions others like them. It is a point of freedom in America you can be one or not. But if you want to be legal in the union you do what they have on the papers you signed.
Legal is as legal does. It is getting pretty bad in America on all fronts.
Anarchy is not the way. It might have been ok 300 years ago but it won't fly in todays America. Try it, you will find out how far you get.
I think the voters have spoken, lately they have taken poles that say give them a green card as long as they are holding down a proper job and paying into SS and all the legal stuff.
If they aren't boot um to where they came, stiffen up the borders and start hitting the employers who are breaking the rules.
I talked to a 19 year old who has been working in the USA since he was 11. He worked for a guy who skipped out and did not do what he was supposd to do. Hiring an 11 year old is wrong.
He was illegal and did not even go to school. Now that is criminal.
I listened to his story, I'll bet he is still not legal. But he is working hard and trying to live the best way he can.
Really it is a two edged sword, cuts both ways. I feel the people who are in the front row are the ones getting most of the Flack. We need to take it to the backrow and stop the employers from doing what they are doing, they are the cheats.
Illegals are mostly working in right to work states. That is what is showing up.
Sure they are all over, but they are victims from the get go. They send their money home to help and they are getting treated badly here, generally by their own greedy kind. Illegal begets illegal.
Sad.
HQ
I am thinking it is Nationalism.
Many are abusing the system. The illegals, are just that.
How about this for a scenario.
You don't make as much money as your neighbor. You want his job in the union, you have only been there one year and don't have the senority he has.
You go out and work on the side and take work from anyone who will pay at any price (against the rules of the union). They kick you out and take all your benefits and never give them back because you broke a rule.
Your neighbor helped you get in the union in the first place, he calls you a scab. Now that is how you have to work as a scab.
Some are against unions others like them. It is a point of freedom in America you can be one or not. But if you want to be legal in the union you do what they have on the papers you signed.
Legal is as legal does. It is getting pretty bad in America on all fronts.
Anarchy is not the way. It might have been ok 300 years ago but it won't fly in todays America. Try it, you will find out how far you get.
I think the voters have spoken, lately they have taken poles that say give them a green card as long as they are holding down a proper job and paying into SS and all the legal stuff.
If they aren't boot um to where they came, stiffen up the borders and start hitting the employers who are breaking the rules.
I talked to a 19 year old who has been working in the USA since he was 11. He worked for a guy who skipped out and did not do what he was supposd to do. Hiring an 11 year old is wrong.
He was illegal and did not even go to school. Now that is criminal.
I listened to his story, I'll bet he is still not legal. But he is working hard and trying to live the best way he can.
Really it is a two edged sword, cuts both ways. I feel the people who are in the front row are the ones getting most of the Flack. We need to take it to the backrow and stop the employers from doing what they are doing, they are the cheats.
Illegals are mostly working in right to work states. That is what is showing up.
Sure they are all over, but they are victims from the get go. They send their money home to help and they are getting treated badly here, generally by their own greedy kind. Illegal begets illegal.
Sad.
HQ
true...it is the suppliers and demanders equally at fault..as that article said..when the people who were hiring were taken to task, the illegals beat it fast...we need an honest economy, not more money for some at any price...besides you must die at some point so why die with a clear conscience and no fear of what awaits you. 
we need to expose those people that are hiring them,expose the figures in dollars and cents that are feeding the illegal issue and covering it up and most of all, expose everyone that turns a blind eye to this problem while backstabbing americans into importing poverty,outsourcing labor,and wrecking havok on public assistance progams,the justice system and the health care system.
its not rasism or anything else..its just plain ol greed and exploitation for their own personal gains and wealth.business is booming for illegals.
its not rasism or anything else..its just plain ol greed and exploitation for their own personal gains and wealth.business is booming for illegals.
I still believe there's a huge amount of racism involved in the attitudes of the pro-illegals crowd--"brown" people will do what white, black, and yellow people won't, so let's exploit the brown people. Because that's what it boils down to: exploitation of a vulnerable class of people.
I can't say I blame anyone who wants a better life. Who wouldn't? But there's a way of doing it, and a way of not doing it. I blame the people who support, employ, and exploit them at the expense of our own legal residents while claiming moral superiority.
I can't say I blame anyone who wants a better life. Who wouldn't? But there's a way of doing it, and a way of not doing it. I blame the people who support, employ, and exploit them at the expense of our own legal residents while claiming moral superiority.
Just to be clear, I don't blame someone for wanting to improve his life. But as Paul Harvey says, "And now, the rest of the story." The issue of illegal aliens is filled with untold "rests" of the stories.
One "rest of the story" is that while I don't blame someone for wanting to improve his life, I will blame him if he does so illegally. A guy who robs a bank just wants to improve his life, but his life of crime and his criminal acts should still be stopped. In the situation with illegal aliens, the "bank" is helping the robber in his crimes by shutting off the alarm system and propping the door open. And so another "rest" of the story is that the illegals have willing accomplices who are just as guilty if not more so.
The accomplices are much easier to identify and target. For that reason, they are the weakest link in the chain. Hit them hard, and they'll begin to fold. My guess is that if you hit about 25% of them with jail time, the rest will mend their ways. The support network will dry up, and without it, the illegals have no reason to come over and no reason to stay.
Correct. However, to be fair, Reagan’s plan was based on an enforcement mechanism that punished employers of illegals, but that enforcement mechanism was defeated. Reagan was less guilty of allowing illegal aliens into the country and more guilty of trusting Congress. He should have taken his own advice that government is the problem.
For some background information: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122297,00.html
I wasnt blaming Reagan or any political party, It just set a precedent or reason to do a second amnesty. Dont trust any politicians when it comes to illegal immigration. Im suprised that Americans have such a short extension spans, well maybe I shouldnt be. We tried this approach the politicians want to do now in 1986 and we still have the same problem. What you have to remember is that Congress can pass all the tough laws to make it look good, then give enforcment of those laws zero dollars to the agencies budget. The political equal of the "bait and switch" scam.
We clap for Congress passing such laws and forget to follow up to make sure they budget for the enforcement of them. What you have going on now are a few dog and pony shows for John Q. Public to show that Congress and Executive Branch are tough on illegal employees by catching some companies so they can pass this new bill to end illegal immigration.
We clap for Congress passing such laws and forget to follow up to make sure they budget for the enforcement of them. What you have going on now are a few dog and pony shows for John Q. Public to show that Congress and Executive Branch are tough on illegal employees by catching some companies so they can pass this new bill to end illegal immigration.