If you were on a Jury, would you convict someone charged with carrying W/O license?

Would you convict a man carrying illegally

  • yes

    Votes: 39 32.0%

  • no

    Votes: 83 68.0%
  • Total voters
    122
Stage 2..I'm not going to dignify that question with an answer
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Why not. Its a perfectly acceptable question. Your whole tirade is that our rights are not granted by the government becasue they exist apart from the government. A person's freedom to speak exists apart from the government. A person's right to be free and travel where they wish exists apart from the government. A person's right to associate with whom he wishes exists apart from the government.

All of our "fundamental rights" are things that we do and expect to do whether there s a government in place or not. Thats why they are fundamental. They exist because we are individuals, not because we live under a government. I agree with all of that.

What you don't get is you can't have a fundmental right to jury nullification because a jury can't exist without government. Its doesn't transcend government because it is part of government. A jury doesn't exist but for government.

So, once again, how can a right trancend government when it wouldn't exist but for government?
 
if it's her choice..it's definately HER body. Nobody has the right to control what she does with her body. Not you, not me. Just because someone else may disagree with her choices..that does not give them the right to impose there will upon her rights.
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So then you're fine with public nudity then right?
 
Jury Nullification is probably the LAST true "We the People" power we have in the courts.

I'm all for it.

Unfortunately, if you ever WANT to be selected for a jury, don't dare mention the words.

-- John D.
 
OK.........let's change that child pornographer to, say, a prostitute.

Do crack dealers have the "right" to sell their dope to consenting adults???
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As George Carlin wisely said (though slightly edited):
Selling is legal. Screwing is legal. So why is selling screwing illegal?

Yes, prostitutes ought to have the right to do what they do..in some areas they do. They're well taken care of in Nevada, are very safe and clean, and strictly regulated for the safety of their market. Drugs too but some people just refuse to view their local bartender and liquor store owners as the drug dealers they are.

Yes, people ought to have the right to do any action which does not inherently harm another person. Your two examples fit the bill to a T. Now that doesn't mean I wouldn't convict someone of commiting those crimes if I were placed on a jury where my sole purpose - as I currently understand it - is to decide whether or not the defendant commited the crime in question.
A prostitute also affects the lives of other people through her actions (and so does the man that she....does business with). It creates and spreads disease.
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Only in an unregulated black market. The same way that gun ownership affects the lives of other people via accidental deaths, negligent discharges and crimes commited with legally owned weapons. Prostitution only causes problems like you mentioned when it's left to the black market. The brothels in Nevada stay open because they run clean businesses.
 
So then you're fine with public nudity then right?
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Me, absolutely. I would be fine living in a town where it was as legal as it would be on a nudist colony. Many likeminded individuals do just that. Now I could have sworn there was a town in Vermont that passed such an ordinance allowing public nudity but I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly or what the results were. Being nude does not infringe upon anyone's rights. Those who are offended are the ones with the issue, not the ones causing the offense.
So, once again, how can a right trancend government when it wouldn't exist but for government?
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Because rights are not dependant on government to exist.
 
Redworm

Danzig chose not to answer this one, so........

you wouldn't have a problem with me opening up a whore-house next door to your house ????
 
No Sasquatch. I wouldn't. What they are doing is none of my business..or yours. It does not affect me adversely. If my own morals cause me to have a problem with their work then that's MY problem..not theirs.

I have no right to impost my moral views on them and I have less right to try and use the force of government to impose my moral views on them.
 
you wouldn't have a problem with me opening up a whore-house next door to your house ????
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No moreso than I'd have a problem with you opening up an auto shop next to my home. I'd rather you not because it's mighty inconvenient to have a business smack dab in the middle of a residental neighborhood but since properly regulated brothels are no less legitimate than any grocery store or other establishment we all visit every day then I wouldn't really worry about the business being conducted so much as the fact that it's a business. I've lived next to a strip club and had little problem with it. I'm not offended by sex, some people are.
 
Sure..once we legalize the crack that he's selling. That will take the incredible profit margin out of it and eliminate the turf wars that result from such inflated profits.
 
What you don't get is you can't have a fundmental right to jury nullification because a jury can't exist without government. Its doesn't transcend government because it is part of government. A jury doesn't exist but for government.
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The right of a person to judge whether the laws passed by their government are right or wrong is indeed fundamental. The jury provides a formal forum.

If juries were absent, I believe we would all still hold a responsibility for the behavior of the government we tolerated.
 
Danzig

Cool. And the crack dealer I mentioned........he can open up shop across the street ???
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Can he sell his product with the quality control and safety regulations of a major pharmaceutical company or alcohol distributor? I doubt it. That's not to say I'd want Abbot or Pfizer moving next door but that's just because they generally have very large buildings and it would mean they'd buy up a good portion of my neighborhood. Not very appealing. But I'd have no problem with a pharmaceutical company that produced and sold medical grade narcotics - such as Abbot and Pfizer, which already do - moving into the general area to supply jobs. Oh that's right, there's an Abbot lab just two towns over and they produce some pretty high grade stuff there as it is. Fortunately for them it's strictly regulated and fewer people die from their products than the guns you and I hold so dear.


I'm sorry, this is getting off topic...but to bring it back, I'd just as easily convict an Abbot or Pfizer CEO for his numerous crimes of embezzelment and other white collar crimes that the rich white upper crust tends to enjoy despite the fact that the product he sells doesn't do anyone any harm. :D
 
In many ways I'm very conservative..but I try to keep that personal to myself. I honestly believe that if someone is not an overt threat to me or mine then I have NO business sticking my nose into their business.

Live and let live is a pretty good philosophy.
 
Hey Sasquatch: I assume if your 18 yr old daughter had sex with a guy because he promised to take her to a pop concert you'd call the cops and have her arrested for prostitution?

Now, I think that would be kind of ridiculous. But what if her best friend called the cops because she was pissed for some reason?

Wouldn't the cops be obligated to arrest her?
Would't the DA be obligated to prosecute her?
Would't the judge be obligated upon conviction to send her to prison forever (3 strikes in CA) because earlier in the year she had smoked pot behind the school and borrowed her friends prescription medication because she had a migraine.
Would't the Jury be obligated to find her guilty?

Shouldn't someone, at some point should say, WTF? Or can the only position be "Well, that's the law"
 
let's not go there guys :( this is a good topic and since I don't know much of anything about jury nullification I want to hear more so let's not get it locked :cool: I too am guilty of putting a quarter on the tracks but let's quit while we're ahead ^_^
 
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