If you had to use a cast bullet

255 grain SWC 9.5 grains of Unique. That will do most anything a handgun can do. Will work for sure are self-defense round or kill a deer for that matter.
 
DSC00869.jpg


Here's the big brother to your 180 grain .44 Ed. I have the same design in .38 and would love one for my .45 revolvers.
 
That's the one! Great boolit. Did they discontinue this mould or something? I hardly ever see anyone with this mould. I think it should be more popular than it is, all things considered. They also came out with a 200 gr version of this boolit. They added a pointy nose and kept the full caliber shoulder. I suppose so it will increase the range without tumbling. I'd like to try some of them sometime. Here's my lineup of 44 Boolits. (180-200-237-240-245-255-300)

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • Total Versatility in 44..jpg
    Total Versatility in 44..jpg
    17.1 KB · Views: 101
Regarding the original question about using a 200gr bullet or 255gr bullet for personal protection:

My question is:
The intent is to use 'factory loaded' ammo, correct?

The reason why I ask is because based on some articles by Massad Ayoob and his involvement with court cases, he has highlighted that the courts and juries often have a negative view of people who handload their own defensive ammo.
The perspective is that the individual is 'bloodthirsty' and was creating special 'people killing ammo' and eagerly waiting to try it out and use it on someone.

We all know that is ridiculous and untrue, but in the courts, that seems to be common.

So, back to the original comment/question:
Are there good factory loads (e.g. Buffalo Bore) where we have some good choices of 200gr and 250gr/255gr ammo for personal defense?

Regards,
Mike
 
^ No one could have reported on any such case as there has never been a criminal case involving self-defense and reloads. Non-expanding cast bullets would make for a better defense, as opposed to expanding bullets, that are designed to cause more tissue damage, or at least they are supposed to in theory, if someone gets involved in a civil trial.
 
Last edited:
jmortimer - are you in the legal field?
Where are you sourcing the knowledge that there has never been a criminal case involving self-defense and reloads.

There have been articles written in several gun magazines (at least one by Massad Ayoob) on this topic advising against using self-loaded ammo.

So, I'm curious where you are sourcing your information...

Thanks,
Mike
 
Yes I am. Yes, there are articles on this issue and you should make your own decisions. And no, there has never, ever, not even once in the history of the United States been a single case where a reload was an issue in a criminal case of alleged self defense. As for cast bullets, there is a minority, myself included, that prefer cast bullets with a large meplat for self-defense. Here is an article from Guns and Ammo Handguns web site "Wicked Wadcutters" dated 9-24-2010 http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/ammunition_hg_wickedwadcutters_200901/ No need to re-argue the pros and cons of reloads for self-defense, as the issue has been beaten to death. Issue here raised by O/P is 200 grain v 255 grain. A cast bullet at low/mid level velocity has a lot going for it, low recoil and fantastic straight-line penetration.
 
I have matching .45 Colts. I tried various bullet weights and found the 200 gr to shoot best from my guns. At 940 fps they have proven effective against game. I'm sure they'd work fine for self defense.
 
I'd go with the lighter 200 gr bullet.

I've done some experimenting with light vs. heavy cast bullets, mostly LSWC in .44's. The lighter (faster) ones give more swat (noticeably more damage on milk jugs), yet still penetrate a LOT.

Remember, JMB's original .45 ACP load used a 200 gr bullet.
 
I talked to accurate molds a few months ago, at that time unless the mold model you wanted was part of a group buy or was interested in a design that was part of a group buy you were pretty much out of luck.
 
I have read about a couple happy customers over at cast boolits who got one-offs from accurate. MiHec and NOE are another story. You may be right, but site says four week turn-around.
 
I'd go with the 200 grainer, myself...less recoil, same diameter that doesn't depend on expansion to create a bit hole, and first and foremost, less recoil to hinder follow up shots, if necessary. Missouri Bullet Co. may have what you need...top rate quality, and reasonable prices. They're my first pick if not casting myself. Best Regards, Rod
 
That would be great J, I'd love him to make me a big flat point with a gascheck for my Winchester '73 copy. Currently using the 454190 hp. When shot into water filled gallon jugs leaves me with a .45 collar button, but have yet to get satisfying accuracy with any plain base I have tried.
 
There have been articles written in several gun magazines (at least one by Massad Ayoob) on this topic advising against using self-loaded ammo.
Click to expand...

I've long suspected that Ayoob's advice to not use handloads for defense was inspired by money from ammo companies. I think he actually did quote one single case where the issue of handloads came up. A suicide case I think it was.

Even so, a single case does not a pattern or trend make. Keeping our priorities in order, critical thinking shows us that not using handloads for SD because they'll put you in jail for it, is a minor consideration. Keeping ourselves and our loved ones in our charge safe is paramount.

This can only be accomplished by a lot of practice, and some studying of the local laws about the use of arms for SD in general. You want to run a lot of ammo through your EDC to prove it's reliability with your chosen bullets. Some say this number is 200, some say 500. You want to run a lot more of the ammo through your EDC for placement practice.

How're you supposed to do this with factory ammo with it at 20 to 30 dollars a box for 20 rounds? Not everyone is independently wealthy. Lead boolit handloads solve this problem nicely. Before someone mentions how nice the dollar per round hollowpoints open up and reduce your chances of over-penetration, I'll say that I think the over-penetration issue is overblown also. The problem is not over-penetration, the problem is missing your target. A dollar per round hollowpoint will not keep you out of jail if you miss and strike an innocent bystander.

If handloads become an issue in court, then you've already done something wrong to make them look closer at the incident. When some people defend themselves and are not even charged with it, the defensive nature of the incident is readily apparent. A lot of the SD incidents are this way, moreso than one case of questionable suicide. If you're practiced up with your lead loads and are very aware of your environment and so forth, your bases are covered.

I don't hold it against Ayoob for suggesting to buy factory for SD. It's not a bad idea, just not the best idea. Besides, they drove a dump-truck full of money up to his house, so who wouldn't take that deal? lol. I say use lead, practice more than you would with hi-dollar HP's, and watch your step out there. Being righteous in your use of the gun, and being practiced up enough to know where you're printing will keep you out of jail more than use XX brand of ammo.
 
Well, my other molds came in and I got some casting time in last Sunday. The small one weighs 210 lubed and sized and the Keith is 260.

I plan on using 6.0gr of Tightgroup with the big guy and 7.0 Tightgroup with the little guy.

The last time I did some testing with my little 3 3/4" revolver I used the middle bullet which is 255gr and I used 5.4gr of Tightgroup which gave me 638fps.

That load shot pretty high so I'm hoping these hotter loads are more POA.

200and255castbullets.jpg
 
Got some data today and here it is.

260 Keith 6.0 Tightgroup 738fps 314ft/lbs
210 LRNFP 7.0 Tightgroup 883fps 319ft/lbs

Both were very accurate and both were controlable as far as recoil goes. They aren't the hottest loads I've made but as an overall package they were the best I'd say.

I still can't rule one out. Maybe I'll have to do some penetration tests to see what's better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top