If one wants an RKBA president, it's time to cut down the field to One!

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At the end of the day and the rhetoric of
the choir ceases, are you ready to lose
the election to Gore or Bradley?

I heard that some polls indicate that even with a Bush victory, the house might go
Democratic again.

Gun folks like to lose sometime, so then
we are able to exchange messages of outrage
with each other. I prefer different strategies. I've spoken to this elsewhere.
 
At a recent GOP precinct meeting here in Arizona, I asked the representatives of the McCain and Forbes campaigns a simple question never posed to them before: "Name three gun prohibition laws your candidate would repeal?"

The just about gagged on themselves, having answered effusively on all other questions posed to them that night. After a moment of unconfortable silence (for them) I offered, "1934 NFA? 1968 GCA? Brady? AW ban?..." Oh, what I would give to ask candidates that question to their faces.

I spoke with Keyes personally at a recent Arizona debate. He is the real deal. Hatch talked a good game but I am unconvinced that he means it, given what he has been involved with before, such as S10 of last year.

Rick

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
 
Okay, Glenn. Your last one begs a direct response.

At the end of the day, when the rhetoric of the choir ceases, are you ready to
lose your guns because you voted for gun control?

If we continue to compromise and to give up even *before* the fight, surely
the entire Congress will go to Democrats and gun-grabbing Republicans.

It *does* seem that gun folks like to lose sometimes. Especially when we
merely exchange messages of outrage with each other rather than fight for
what we know is right.
I prefer different strategies. I also have spoken to this elsewhere.

(See, Glenn? It does work both ways. We have the same goals. Let’s fight
for them and win at the ballot box. :) )

-----

Rick,

What an incredible question! Let’s demand each and every candidate
answer that one!

Wow! I love it! :D

That’s in my next round of letters!

Thank you, Rick! :D



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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
I would be inclined to use the Warsaw '43 analogy...if the odds suck either way, go with the folks who are on your side. Trusting one butcher do you in slower than another butcher would ignores the option of charging them and giving hell, horn and hoof.

So, just as my sympathies are with the "crazy" Zionists from Mila 18, I would go with Libertarians or the few Republicans with spines that I know to be on my side. We gain nothing from picking from among the rest, no matter which of the beasts wins.

As for the prospect of "losing faster"...that would end the successful "frog boiling" that has nearly got us already.

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Keys is the only one who is truly pro RKBA. Listening to him talk, you just know that he's got an AK tucked away at home. RKBA implies a belief in liberty & freedom I'd rate Keys at50%, McCain at 30% Bush & the rest of the pack are all sub 10%, their being firmly part of the proverbial "Big Brother".

Unless you're willing to fight for the rights of someone to do somthing which you find ojectionable; you're not really a friend of freedom!
 
I'm repeating myself. I don't think any candidate like Forbes, Keyes or Bauer has
any chance of winning the Presidency.

I think that a Democratic president will do
truly permanent and irrepairable damage to the RKBA.

No one deals with that issue. Such damage
will make everybody angry but that won't change anything.

Do you all think that if Gore or Bradley wins and Forbes/Keyes/Bauer loses we will be in better shape than if Bush won?

That's really a Yes / No question. That's
what it will come down to.

Would the RKBA recover from a Dem president,
Congress and 3 new Supreme Court justices?

No offense to anyone :) but I'm not seeming much beyond polemics and not a focus on results.
 
Rat you said it before I could. If the dems get it instead of the repubs, we'll just be going to hell faster. The destination remains the same. If enough people voted LP or atleast Keyes they might get the point. I think we have picked the lessor of the two for far TOO long. If we lose badly we all know what we will have to do eventually.

Dennis, as to blame, The 34NFA and 68GCA were both fully in effect before or right near the birth of KJM I consider these laws as the worst of all and they allowed all the rest that followed to go through. No flame on you, but the younger guys couldnt even walk when they were passed, and find it hard to belive they (the younger guys) are responsable for current laws being passed that are approved (legally) because of stuff like the "Sporting Clause" in the 68 ACT. Example The import ban by good old bush, even though the law was relatively recent his ammo for it was contained in the 68 law.

I think we all need to start voting for the people who believe in our absolute rights reguardless of the consequences. If we had done this 50 years ago we wouldnt have all these problems today. Maybe it would have gotten worse for a while but one day we would have won and started to reverse the effects and maybe this year we would be Eliminating the NFA instead of debating who will pass the most tolerable gun control laws.I think Tom says it best.
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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON

Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.

A RAND




[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited January 19, 2000).]
 
Glenn,

We’re all repeating ourselves so no problem there.
I would gently comment that if all you read here is polemics, please help us
by trying to grasp our meaning rather accusing us of mere meaningless
aggression.
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All,

Some folks on TFL believe we should all get behind Bush right now and
abandon all other candidates as unacceptable or unable of winning the
Presidency.

Let’s talk about the Democrats.

Most of us agree that any of the Democrat Presidential candidates would be
destructive to our Constitution. We have seen three scenarios if a (ptui!)
Democrat becomes President.

-- Some folks feel there would be permanent and irreparable damage to our
Constitution, many would be angry, but nothing would be done. Let’s call
this the “Roll Over and Die” scenario.

-- Others believe the Democrats would be so reckless as to awaken the
“sleeping American”. The Democrats would be discredited, the Republicans
would return to a more Constitutional stance and we “could” be better off
than we are now. Let’s call this the “Republican Revival” scenario.

-- Still others believe the Democrats would be so incredibly reckless as to
bring about armed insurrection - a “Fight and Die” scenario.

No Democrat is so stupid as to create the Fight and Die scenario. If they
accidentally moved so fast that a Republican Revival scenario became
possible, the Democrats probably would sacrifice a few peons, maybe a
leader or two would “retire”, some committee assignments could be
switched around, etc. and they would declare “the problem is solved”.

Therefore, I would lay the following odds to the scenarios:
80% Roll Over and Die
19% Republican Revival
1% Fight and Die

We may envision different scenarios but we all agree the Democrats would
hurt us. That issue has not been avoided. :D

-------

Let’s talk about the Republicans

I think Bush is a shoo-in. Unless he steps on a political land mine, he’s
bought the Presidency with dollars (from profits on goods and services we
have purchased) and with power (established by his Daddy, his party, his
business associates and others who sense “there’s gold in them thar
Bushes!”)

However, if we blindly support Bush at this point, he has absolutely no need
to address our concerns. He can continue to smile, speak some Spanish,
tell us he’s a good guy, and avoid every hardcore political question.
Therefore, it is NOT yet time to narrow the field down to Bush.

If we support Ambassador Keyes vocally, visibly and adamantly, and
publicize to all candidates that our support is based upon Dr. Keyes’ belief in
Constitutional government, then (and only then) we may bring other
Republican candidates (especially Bush) more into alignment with our
Constitution (including the Second Amendment).

We must put pressure on these candidates. It takes hard, consistent,
unrelenting pressure to affect any change in their elitist political programs.

Note that I am not saying we withhold support from Bush. I am saying if
we expect him to address our issues, we must pressure him to do so.

Also, nobody’s crystal ball is so clear to predict with 100% certainty that Dr.
Keyes is not “viable”. (Salute to el Jefe! ;) )
-------

When it comes to avoiding issues, the Republicans are masters:

Does anyone dispute that Bush advocates gun control?
Does anyone dispute that Bush has *promised* gun control?

If Bush is only saying what he needs to say to become elected, then:
1) What beliefs, if any, does Bush have?
2) If he already is “saying what’s necessary” to become elected, then he is
being neither candid nor truthful. Is he not then a liar who can not be
trusted?
3) How can we predict what he will do if he becomes President?

Who *IS* this Bush guy? Other than being his Daddy’s son, what has he
done? Bush has no real track record.

GW Bush became our Governor by default! Ann Richards completely
misread Texas voters. She committed political suicide when she refused to
let the Concealed Handgun Law(CHL) even be voted upon. Many people
who agreed with Queen Ann were angry that she did not even give them a
chance to vote “NO” to the CHL. Bush merely stepped (unopposed) over
her dead body into the Governor’s office.

Did Bush “give” Texans our Concealed Handgun law? No, he did not!
- The CHL bill was presented and pushed at great political risk to himself by
a true RKBA advocate from Houston.
- State politicians passed the CHL for at least three reasons:
--1) Looking at Ann Richards dead political body scared them!
--2) The success of Florida’s CHL gave them no excuse to fight the Texas
CHL.
--3) The politicians figured they could wash their hands of responsibility for
the CHL by blaming its passage on the popular vote (namely us).
--4) The politicians figured they could come riding in to “save the children”
and revoke the CHL if it went bad - the vocal voters would take the blame
as a “misguided minority”.
- The Texas Department of Public Safety (the State Troopers) were given
the task of creating the CHL system and making it work. Had the program
failed, these poor cops would have “bit the bullet” big time!
- Bush signed the CHL legislation because that was his stepladder to the
Governor’s seat.

(By the way, please note that GW Bush had no background in government
before he became governor - except for helping his Daddy lose a shoo-in
Presidential re-election.)

GW Bush is no champion of our RKBA!

- He took advantage of Ann Richard’s pompous blunder to become
Governor.
- He has promised additional gun control measures.
- He has embraced every single Republican proposal for future additional
gun control.

Is GW Bush “tough on crime”? Who knows?

- He refused to pardon a confessed murderess who became “saved”, “cute”,
and a darling of the “eliminate the death penalty” movement. So what?
- While Bush was Governor, Texas executed a bunch of murderers who long
ago had been sentenced to death. So what?
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Glenn asks, “Do you all think that if Gore or Bradley wins and
Forbes/Keyes/Bauer loses we will be in better shape than if Bush won?”

To validate that question, we must make the assumption that only Bush can
run against Gore or Bradley. I don’t believe that is a worthy assumption at
this early date - although it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Among the Republicans, only Alan Keyes voices correct Constitutional
opinions. The others voice the stale “two chickens in every pot”
propaganda.
- Bush and McCain argue about whose tax cut is better, pretend to be
angry with each other, and try vainly to differentiate themselves in the
pretense of providing a “choice”.
- McCain (a Republican) and Bradley (a Democrat) are raising campaign
funds for each other! Can you still believe the Republicans and Democrats
are TWO political parties?
- Alan Keyes voices Constitutional opinions and supports our RKBA.

Alan Keyes is the only Republican Presidential candidate who says
gun control laws are unconstitutional!


For us to support any Republican other than Alan Keyes shames us and
shows our RKBA statements are hollow posturing.
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Now, about those three new Supreme Court Justices.
Obviously Gore or Bradley would nominate anti-Constitutional judges.
After some Congressional pillow fights for the benefit of the voters in the
Coliseum, the combined Democrat and Republican Party would confirm
these disastrous nominations.

But imagine for a moment the nominations that would be made by Alan
Keyes or by a Libertarian President. Imagine the pressure on the
Republicans, and even the Democrats, if Americans just stood up and voted
for their Constitutional Rights! The Republocrat Fruit-of-the-loom laundry
would be working night shifts and weekends! ;)

We could DO this. Why won’t we even try? Why do 80,000,000 million gun
owners refuse to vote for their own Rights? And why do we say nearly a
year before the election that our cause is lost?
Capitulate with the gun control advocates.
Abandon our pro-RKBA efforts.
Compromise yet again.
Appease them by sacrificing our RKBA just “one more time”.

That is a CACA program!

Maybe we DO need to be ruled by a Socialist state. If we truly are unwilling
or unable to simply cast a vote to secure what our forefathers and ancestors
fought and died to give us on a sliver platter, then we deserve to be
subservient to the Democrat/Republican Party and, eventually, to the United
Nations.

We do not deserve to have firearms
if we are too timid to vote for freedom.


And if that simple sentence is considered polemics, then don’t ever read
Patrick Henry’s moving speech.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited January 19, 2000).]
 
Seems to me that we're making a relatively simple question overly confusing, just like a bunch of politicians. ;) Question: "Which presidential candidate truly supports RKBA?" It's not an opinion such as "which is most viable" or "which will do the least damage"; it's also not a prognostication like "which will appoint the best sc justices".

Why not choose principle over pragmatism? Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, George Mason and a few others did, and between them they changed the world. Those who would vote for the Anointed One admit that he is far from the best RKBA candidate, yet they cling to the hope that he will walk the walk even though he doesn't even talk the talk. Why not choose the candidate you know best represents your interests, instead of letting the media and the duocracy tell you who is or is not viable? No matter what happens on election day, if you vote your conscience you will be able to say "I voted for the best candidate". The strongest endorsement I've heard here for the Anointed One is essentially an advertisement for prevent defense. As John Madden puts it, "prevent defense prevents you from winning".

It comes down to this: time is running out on our experiment in liberty, and we may not have many more chances to get it right.

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"Every decent man must be ashamed of his government." H.L. Mencken
 
I think Dennis is right, we need to put some heat on Bush. I will not vote for him in the primary. However, I do not personally agree with some Libertarian positions, so I probably will have no choice but to vote for him in the election.

I have written Bush rather long letter about my concerns with his Second Ammendment position, among others. I suggest we all do the same- here's his contact information:
http://www.georgewbush.com/contact/index.html

I suggest you especially go after his support of banning handguns and "assult rifles" for young adults.
 
We've hit 100K. Please start part 2.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
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