If law permitted CCW on Airlines with a 8 hour training course would you do it?

If federal laws allowed CCW on aircraft with a class of instruction would you do it?

  • No - Guns and planes dont mix

    Votes: 57 26.4%

  • Maybe depending on the hassle involved

    Votes: 34 15.7%

  • Yes but certification would have to be frequent for max safety

    Votes: 31 14.4%

  • Yes but only if certification was good for at least 3-5 years

    Votes: 94 43.5%
  • Total voters
    216
  • Poll closed .
I'd do it if it were like Hunter Safety Classes ... FREE! (At least here in Alabama!) And it was good for 3-5 years. I don't fly frequently enough for it to be a huge hassle. But the knowledge that people are armed on airplanes would deter hijackings.
 
I'd do it if it were like Hunter Safety Classes ... FREE! (At least here in Alabama!) And it was good for 3-5 years. I don't fly frequently enough for it to be a huge hassle. But the knowledge that people are armed on airplanes would deter hijackings.
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Surely would deter hijackers. But it would deter a lot of us too :D;), who would think in an alternate way of travelling!!.
 
There are apparently a lot of folks here who still believe in explosive decompression as taught by Hollywood and that FAMs are somehow the world's greatest gunhandlers and marksman. Amazing. Remember that the people who are making the rules and who are responsible for aircraft safety and security are the SAME people who were in charge on the morning of Sept. 11 and who were unable to do ANYTHING about four hijacked airliners flying around the CONUS for an hour or so. Including our $400 billion dollar a year Air Force. Until this situation changes significantly I am with the folks who stated they will not fly commercial (and have not) with the policies and procedures we now have in place. Especially the use of the TSA who told Joe Foss that they were confiscating his Medal of Honor because it might be a possible weapon and when he asked them what they were going to do with it he was told they were going to throw it into a trash can. The reason they don't want you to be able to defend yourself on a commercial aircraft is quite simply that the airline's insurance carriers don't want to risk litigation. As long as they are safe from lawsuits they couldn't care less how many airliners get hijacked. It's all about money. It always is and always has been.
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I think this one has it right
 
That shouldn't be a surprise, airliners aren't in business to provide a service, they want to make a profit. Just like you would if you owned an airline. And honestly, guns on a plane would probably create more problems than it solves, given the extraordinarily low number of hijackings in aviation history.
 
So if I'm a terrorist, especially a domestic one, I would just take the course and then carry my handgun onto the airplane for nefarious deeds. No way is this a good idea. And in the event of trouble you jump out of your seat with your pistol drawn and then the sky marshal shoots you down thinking you are one of the bad guys.
 
My choice was not there. I fly now only because I need to for work and I fly armed. Once I retire I do not plan on flying anymore.

Everything is overpriced and everybody is rude. The seats are too cramped and the planes stink, everyone who is sick shares it with everyone else on the plane.
 
So if I'm a terrorist, especially a domestic one, I would just take the course and then carry my handgun onto the airplane for nefarious deeds.
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And the lawful carrier on the plane punches your ticket.... Exactly my point...
 
Nanuk said:
My choice was not there. I fly now only because I need to for work and I fly armed. Once I retire I do not plan on flying anymore.

Everything is overpriced and everybody is rude. The seats are too cramped and the planes stink, everyone who is sick shares it with everyone else on the plane.
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Overpriced? Compare the price of tickets now and 20 years ago, they haven't changed. The price of tickets now isn't enough to cover the cost of the flight. Employees are rude because the companies treat them like crap, the planes stink because the ticket price doesn't provide enough money to clean it every leg.

Most of the airline woes (outside of security) boil down to air travel being underpriced, not overpriced.
 
I respectly disagree Ralgha.

I travel 10 days a month for work on average. So I would say I have extensive flying experience.

I have seen rates vary so much that there is definite fluff. Just recently I had a business trip scheduled. I had to push it back a week. I had them reschedule the same exact flights a week later and they were $600 more on top of the $400 already. That didnt include the "Change Flight" fee.

As far as you pointing out people being rude is cause they are treated like crap? So what you are saying is if my boss is a jerk to me. That justifies me treating you like crap?

If your boss/company is treating you badly, start looking for another job. Dont take it out on people that have nothing to do with it.
 
I'm a pilot for an airline. I fly 4+ days a week, 4+ flights a day. I see them cancel service to cities with consistent nearly full loads because they are losing money on them. A few examples of expensive tickets mean nothing.

I am looking for another job, many in my position can't due to lack of other experience or other reasons. Changing airlines is not always an option because you start over at the bottom.

I could describe what it's like, but most people probably don't care. I personally don't hate my job, or my company, but they are not making me want to stay.
 
I won't argue Pilots aren't treated as well as they were in past. The blame should be on the suits above and not the passengers looking for a good deal on a flight.
 
The lawful carrier vs. the terrorist sound great except that we've made the point that you might get a fairly large number of terrorists on the plane and Johnny J-Frame isn't going to be that successful.

Also, the terrorists start by grabbing a person or two and the rest draw down on the passengers. What you gonna do then?
 
And the lawful carrier on the plane punches your ticket...Exactly my point...
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In your wildest imagination, do you really think it would be that simple? :cool:.

Still waiting on those who are in favor of cc'ing on airlines.... what plans you have to insuring no legal cc'er thats a hijacker will board your planes in the first place???
 
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Given my level of training and experience..... yes

Have you ever been under live fire? Its not rocket science....

what plans you have to insuring no legal cc'er thats a hijacker will board your planes in the first place???
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Well unless the mass of CCW carriers goes nuts I would hope we would have at least one or two patriots on the plane.

Funny no one screens our bus passengers and they could load those babys up with BGs.....
 
Given my level of training and experience...yes
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...and do you feel the rest of the cc'ing world that may be on the same plane as you and your family have the same training/experience as you... that they have all experienced live fire and wouldn't freak out.

Before answering that, think about the possibility of one of the hijackers having a loved one of yours using them as a shield, you are halfway down the isle of the plane with to many people between you and hijacker/loved one and there are 300 other armed passengers on board. How confident would you be that these other armed passengers would have your experience...enough to trust the life of your loved one with??

Its not rocket science
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Unless perhaps the above scenario was to happen. Then rocket science would be a bit trivial.

How comfortable or sure would you be even with your experience in that scenario?
 
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...and do you feel the rest of the cc'ing world that may be on the same plane as you and your family have the same training/experience as you... that they have all experienced live fire and wouldn't freak out.

Before answering that, think about the possibility of one of the hijackers having a loved one of yours using them as a shield, you are halfway down the isle of the plane with to many people between you and hijacker/loved one and there are 300 other armed passengers on board. How confident would you be that these other armed passengers would have your experience...enough to trust the life of your loved one with??
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I cant speak for the level of competence of the average CCW person but if the plane is going to be shot down because of the situation then even a horrible shot CCW person would probably be preferable to the passengers than 100% chance of death.

I know what I can do and what I cant do with a bullet and in the situation that it was my loved one then I wouldnt present until the opportunity was reasonably favorable. I am certainly not Rambo but Im not Joe Blow at shooting either.....

Ultimately even if every CCW person on the plane was a terrible shot one would hope they would understand their individual limitations and only act if and when they felt they could contribute to the successful end of the situation.

The first thing one learns as a leader on the ground is situational awareness and that if you dont have it you tend to loose the battle quickly. Of course most CCW people wont have the training but does that negate the right to self defense? I totally get that a hand to hand approach may be the more desirable approach but many people arent physically able to contemplate that avenue due to health, age or experience....
 
BGutzman, my guess is that your live-fire experience involved unit vs improvised attack/ambush scenarios, since IIRC you only recently retired, and were not around for VietNam.

Defending a FOB, you aren't shooting around your buddies.

Defending a convoy, you aren't shooting around your buddies, though if you are a vehicle gunner you may be shooting over their heads.

Clearing a building, you are normally working with a team, and know where your guys are.

When was your last experience at engaging a bad guy, on the far side of a tight cluster of unarmed friendlies?

That's the kind of experience and training you'd need for an airliner scenario, and only a very small few get that training.
 
I would in a heartbeat, even if they checked up on you often. I would feel so much safer on a plane carrying and knowing other citizens could be carrying. I think there should be plenty of rules though I dont know what they would be. But, I do believe everyone should have to use Frangible ammo because off risk of hull rupture. That could cause problems, however the plane would not tear open like a can if it did happen. Maybe a Basketball size hole at MOST and that is pushing it. They problem is 38,000ft. is a little short on oxygen :eek:.
 
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