DWARREN123
New member
One law for everyone, no exceptions!
If I mess up, can I get Paid leave from my employer, no jail time?
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And that is SOP. The man is not "guilty" of DUI until a court of law finds him so, and the department cannot terminate him until he is found guilty. Given how the courts work, that could take weeks, months, or even longer.
Works the same way in the military, cant say anything on fitness reports unless he is found guilty and they still get paid until they are found guilty.
He did pay a hell of a price if he lost out on a pension. At the way medical care costs are these days he lost a heck of a lot.
Works the same way in the military, cant say anything on fitness reports unless he is found guilty and they still get paid until they are found guilty.
He did pay a hell of a price if he lost out on a pension. At the way medical care costs are these days he lost a heck of a lot.
paratrooper
New member
Just a quick question . As a Class "A" driver my allowable BAC is ZERO . If I get busted once in the truck I will also need another line of work . Many companies will take a driver with a DUI in a car BUT they like to see a 5 year gap since the infraction . Begs the question , what is the allowable BAC of a cop even off duty while driving a police car ? This guy was 150% of the legal limit . Anyone else is getting a DUI no matter what . Perhaps there is some kind of limit for them that we don't know about . With that BAC he might have been in more doo doo than we think .
I agree somewhat with both views on this one. I agree it is good to see him own up to it and not "call in some favors" and get away scot free, but I take issue with the fact that he was given a citation, and then a ride home.If it were me who got caught drunk driving, even if I didn't have an accident, I would have been arrested and taken to jail on the spot and had to post $5000 bail ($500 cash) to get out, no questions asked (ask me how I know...).He was given special treatment for being a LEO, and I dont agree with that.
LEOs are afforded a little "professional courtesy" in matters like this. Placing a current police officer in a jail requires segregation from other inmates or you risk his safety. When other inmates find out a cop is in a jail they will sometimes go to extremes to get their "ounce of flesh" or just outright maim or kill him.
And no, I don't believe it would serve justice if no consideration was given and he was just dumped in with the other inmates. That would be equivalent to beating a prisoner.
And no, I don't believe it would serve justice if no consideration was given and he was just dumped in with the other inmates. That would be equivalent to beating a prisoner.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
He was given "special treatment" because he was a known quantity. I've received the exact same from our local cops who know me; no hassles regarding the loaded carbine in the rack below my rear seat; pass on a traffic infraction or two; getting publicly testy with one of our sergeants (I later owned up and apologized).
Cops give breaks to citizens all the time...it doesn't always have to spell corruption. We regularly demand that they not simply "follow orders" but use their own sense of right and wrong; when a citizen is carrying "illegally", for instance. And guess what? Most do use their disretion....when they can, without jeopardizing their career; and when they perceive that additional punishment will not serve any useful purpose.
Now, because they gave a known citizen a ride home after writing him a ticket for full value; a death sentence to his career....now, we want them to follow the Letter of the Law? Why? Simply because the violator was a cop?
We all need to grow up a bit if we expect LEO's to act with some sense of initiative. Personally, I think they did the right thing; and I'd bet they'd have done the same for the local gas station owner if he was this well known a quantity. That mitigates only for personally supporting and getting to know your own local cops..."Community Policing" starts with the word "community" and takes both sides to work.
Rich
Geoff Timm
New member
On the scale of one to Kennedy, why did they even issue a ticket?
Geoff
Who would go for the "Equal Treatment" plea. :barf:
Geoff
Who would go for the "Equal Treatment" plea. :barf:
Ex-UHP lieutenant pleads not guilty to single DUI count
The Salt Lake Tribune
Former Utah Highway Patrol Lt. Fred Swain - who was allegedly driving drunk last month when he crashed his police cruiser - has entered a not guilty plea to one count of driving under the influence of alcohol. Defense attorney Benjamin Hamilton entered the plea on Swain's behalf on Monday in Draper City's justice court. A pre-trial conference is scheduled for Aug. 10 before Judge Daniel Bertch. A trial date could be set at that time.
Swain - a 15-year veteran who commanded the UHP's DUI team - resigned Friday. In his letter of resignation, he admitted to having a drinking problem for more than two years. The 41-year-old officer was off duty about 2:30 a.m. on June 23, when he crashed his unmarked cruiser into a concrete barrier on Bangerter Highway near 400 West in Draper. Swain told officers he had fallen asleep. But tests showed his blood-alcohol level was nearly 0.12 percent. Utah's legal limit is 0.08. Swain is charged with a class B misdemeanor, which carries a maximum of six months in jail, but the standard punishment for first-time DUI offenders is two days in jail. However, community service is often substituted for jail time, according to prosecutors.
http://www.sltrib.com/justice/ci_4017577
The Salt Lake Tribune
Former Utah Highway Patrol Lt. Fred Swain - who was allegedly driving drunk last month when he crashed his police cruiser - has entered a not guilty plea to one count of driving under the influence of alcohol. Defense attorney Benjamin Hamilton entered the plea on Swain's behalf on Monday in Draper City's justice court. A pre-trial conference is scheduled for Aug. 10 before Judge Daniel Bertch. A trial date could be set at that time.
Swain - a 15-year veteran who commanded the UHP's DUI team - resigned Friday. In his letter of resignation, he admitted to having a drinking problem for more than two years. The 41-year-old officer was off duty about 2:30 a.m. on June 23, when he crashed his unmarked cruiser into a concrete barrier on Bangerter Highway near 400 West in Draper. Swain told officers he had fallen asleep. But tests showed his blood-alcohol level was nearly 0.12 percent. Utah's legal limit is 0.08. Swain is charged with a class B misdemeanor, which carries a maximum of six months in jail, but the standard punishment for first-time DUI offenders is two days in jail. However, community service is often substituted for jail time, according to prosecutors.
http://www.sltrib.com/justice/ci_4017577
What investigation is neccesary? He blew over the legal limit. In my part of the country if you blow over, you go straight to jail, do not pass go, do not collect you paycheck. Hopefully when he is found guilty he will have to pay back all the tax money he is getting on paid leave.
It raises the age old question: The police police us , but who polices the police? If you are LE you should be held to a higher standard to set an example for the rest of society. I know peace officers that do not drink or smoke in public and always obey speed limits, etc. Their reasoning:how can I bust someone for something I do?
It raises the age old question: The police police us , but who polices the police? If you are LE you should be held to a higher standard to set an example for the rest of society. I know peace officers that do not drink or smoke in public and always obey speed limits, etc. Their reasoning:how can I bust someone for something I do?
No, I did not miss that part. I am annoyed that for a week he was on paid leave.
I am also further annoyed after reading all the responses that give him credit for "doing the right thing" when he resigned. Does anyone give Dick Nixion credit for that? No, becasue resign or get fired the end result is the same. Him quiting instead of getting canned is a face-saving measure. Futhermore, if he was owning up to it completely-as some here give him credit for-he would have pled guilty instead of not guilty. He also would not have lied and said he "fell asleep at the wheel" for that matter.
He messed up, cop or not we all do. But owning up for your actions is not something I give partial credit for.
I am also further annoyed after reading all the responses that give him credit for "doing the right thing" when he resigned. Does anyone give Dick Nixion credit for that? No, becasue resign or get fired the end result is the same. Him quiting instead of getting canned is a face-saving measure. Futhermore, if he was owning up to it completely-as some here give him credit for-he would have pled guilty instead of not guilty. He also would not have lied and said he "fell asleep at the wheel" for that matter.
He messed up, cop or not we all do. But owning up for your actions is not something I give partial credit for.
Destructo6
New member
Again, they generally are. Civillian employers don't really care what their employees do while off-site: smoke pot, dui, beat your wife, like to fight, no business of theirs.
LE agencies are keenly interested in all of those activities and many more. Ever have to go through a 10-year background investigation for an entry-level job?
Lots of people, regular people, beat a DUI charge. This guy could have kept receiving admin leave pay, again innocent until proven guilty, while fighting the charge. I don't know that agency's policy, but he may have been able to keep his job even after a dui conviction.
Nope, no higher standard. Just the same standard for everyone. If I get busted for DUI, made to post bail, so should a cop. Its that simple. If he gets a ride home from the buddys at the cop shop, then we all should get that treatment. From the article, I believe the ONLY reason this guy resigned is because his DUI went public. If they could have swept it under the rug, he would still be out there, busting people for DUI's.
If I get a DUI, my job is over. If I come up hot on a drug test, its over. If I get arrested, its over. If I go through the court system, and come out innocent, guess what, while off work, waiting, I DO NOT GET PAID>
Yes, I have.
Remember, no one puts a gun to your head and forces you to become a cop.
BS.
If I get a DUI, my job is over. If I come up hot on a drug test, its over. If I get arrested, its over. If I go through the court system, and come out innocent, guess what, while off work, waiting, I DO NOT GET PAID>
Yes, I have.
Remember, no one puts a gun to your head and forces you to become a cop.
You have never worked at an airport have you.
Not in my state. Ever since the govs kid skated on his like, third DUI, we take a very dim veiw of DUI. You blow over the limit while operating a motor vehicle, you go to the drunk tank for the night. Then you go to court, your blood test results are presented and if it is >.08 you get sentanced. The only hope is if you are below twice the legal limit and you plead guilty and you still get a defered sentance.
What does that have to do with the head of a states DUI program getting a DUI? Stop trying to cloud the issue.
Ya' think you know a guy, huh? Obviosly he was NOT a known quantity. As the head DUI guy, he should know all about programs like AA. And as head DUI guy with a drinking problem, he should have tried them out.
An example needs to be made of this officer to prove the integrity of the unit. If he skates the credibility of LE will be questioned and the reputations of all the other officers will be tarnished in the publics mind. Community policing is a good buzz word. Departments that people actualy respect is a better idea.
paratrooper
New member
Someone please help me with this . I seem to remember the top DUI cop in Atlanta getting busted a few years ago for the same thing . He kept his job . When questioned he stated that it only happened one time so it was no big thing . I believe there were accusations that since both he and the mayor were black there was preferential treatment . Am I remembering this correctly ???
johnsonrlp
New member
Don't recall UT's law enforcement as a whole having that great a reputation anyway. Maybe he didn't know it was wrong
He shouldn't get off, but I understand the people he worked with trying to help him. When you risk your lives with someone, you tend to want to back them up no matter what. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I understand. I'd probably help hide a body for some people I've served with.
BTW A certain dem in ohio is trying to make DUI legal on the weekends.
He shouldn't get off, but I understand the people he worked with trying to help him. When you risk your lives with someone, you tend to want to back them up no matter what. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I understand. I'd probably help hide a body for some people I've served with.BTW A certain dem in ohio is trying to make DUI legal on the weekends.
DunedinDragon
New member
I'll give the guy credit for doing the right thing as far as the PD is concerned and resigning. On the other hand I don't buy the whole "community policing" situation as an excuse for not handling him in the appropriate manner....ie driving him home.
I would defy anyone to come up with an example of where a normal citizen who was in a documented DUI-related accident with property damage that was NOT taken to jail and required to bond out. That is shameful and eliminates all credibility of that department within the community for being fair and impartial in how they apply the law.
I also don't go along with the whole innocent until proven guilty as an argument to not judge this situation. DUI's are NOT rocket science. I can't speak specifically for Utah, but most states generally accept as admissable fact in a DUI court that a BA of .08 and higher is evidence of impairment and is all that's needed for conviction. Yes, it can be argued occassionally for a lowering of the charge if the reading was "slightly" above .08 and there was a period of time before the analysis was administered which allowed recently consumed alcohol to take the level above the legal limit. In effect, the driver wasn't LEGALLY drunk at the time of arrest, but eventually reached that level before the BA analysis was done.
But that's not the case here. He was SIGNIFICANTLY over the level several hours after the fact. Which indicates his BA was most likely higher than that at the time he was taken into custody.
Quite honestly he'd have a fool for a lawyer if he didn't plead Not Guilty. That's simply a formality so that the lawyer can perform discovery on the evidence to find out if there were any improprieties in the arrest that would allow the charges to be dismissed of lowered.
Given the facts stated here, he was CLEARLY DUI and beyond that had caused an accident with property damage. That's not insignificant even as a first offense for any normal civilian.
I would defy anyone to come up with an example of where a normal citizen who was in a documented DUI-related accident with property damage that was NOT taken to jail and required to bond out. That is shameful and eliminates all credibility of that department within the community for being fair and impartial in how they apply the law.
I also don't go along with the whole innocent until proven guilty as an argument to not judge this situation. DUI's are NOT rocket science. I can't speak specifically for Utah, but most states generally accept as admissable fact in a DUI court that a BA of .08 and higher is evidence of impairment and is all that's needed for conviction. Yes, it can be argued occassionally for a lowering of the charge if the reading was "slightly" above .08 and there was a period of time before the analysis was administered which allowed recently consumed alcohol to take the level above the legal limit. In effect, the driver wasn't LEGALLY drunk at the time of arrest, but eventually reached that level before the BA analysis was done.
But that's not the case here. He was SIGNIFICANTLY over the level several hours after the fact. Which indicates his BA was most likely higher than that at the time he was taken into custody.
Quite honestly he'd have a fool for a lawyer if he didn't plead Not Guilty. That's simply a formality so that the lawyer can perform discovery on the evidence to find out if there were any improprieties in the arrest that would allow the charges to be dismissed of lowered.
Given the facts stated here, he was CLEARLY DUI and beyond that had caused an accident with property damage. That's not insignificant even as a first offense for any normal civilian.