If I hear one more bumpkin say...

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Esquire M Busterbury

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"I support the war on terror" I might just snap. To give credence to the concept of engaging 'terror' with war is ludicris! What ever happened to a generation believing that the only thing to fear is fear itself? You really wanna fight 'terror'? The best weapon would then be knowledge, information, and possibly empathy. This whole 'lets draw a bigger line in the sand' BULL is starting to get to me personally. Wanna support a war against iraq? fine. Afganistan? fine. A politcal group or nation? Go for it. But against terror?! I feel it makes you sound ignorant. Might as well declare war against the dark.

Rant over. *sigh*


Same goes to attributing the motives of those that wish us harm to their 'religous fanatacism'. Meanwhile the very real effects that we may have had in their neighborhood or country has NOTHING to do with it. Nothing to see there. Just move along. Boo! Terror!
 
Esquire M Busterbury said:
If I hear one more bumpkin say...
"I support the war on terror" I might just snap... Same goes to attributing the motives of those that wish us harm to their 'religous fanatacism'.
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Respectfully Esquire Busterbury, that is what our current war is all about; i.e., War on Terror. We are engaging Al Qaeda and Israel is engaging Hezbollah and Hamas... all three, i.e., Al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah are terrorist entities and none are nations unto themselves so correctly, war is against terror... specifically terror organizations is being driven by fanatical Muslims....

Not sure how you wish us to refer to it...
 
In general, your line of thought is, well, less than applicable in today's geopolitical reality. You are so tied up into the concept of the "Nation-State" that you can't envision that there are dangerous actors on the stage who don't fit into that nation-state mold.

Such as those very religious fanatic terrorists who you seem to be so dead set against even hearing discussion about. And yes, they DO exist, and yes, they ARE a very serious threat, along with their nation-state sponsors.

Hiding your head in the sand won't change that FACT.

While I agree with you that the concept of war on terror is kinda silly and doesn't make sense, that is just a semantic anomaly in my book. A general war against terrorists and their nation-state sponsors is NOT silly, and that is the concept that comes to my mind when I hear "war on terror", and is my understanding of Bush's intention when that term was coined.

The "war on terror" of today makes no more sense than yesterday's "war on poverty", semantically speaking. They are both tilting at windmills in that respect. And yet you and I both know exactly what was meant by both turns of the phrase. Get the point?
 
No doubt the war on terror with be just as effective and will victimize the same people as the war on drugs, the war on poverty, and all those other excuses for more government control over your daily life.
 
The use of the word "war" is not accidental. This administration uses the word as a legal cover for their unconstitutional power grab. The terror is what allows them to get away with it. Don't think for a second that this is unintentional.
The land of the free and the home of the brave? Maybe once upon a time but not any more.
 
I know how you feel
If I hear one more pseudo intellectual panty-piddler say that our cultural effect on the terrorist homeland is the reason for their murderous actions instead of the religious fanatism that they themselves use to support their attacks and that we should empathize with them to try to understand their butchery I may also snap

I support the war on terror
I support rounding up the terrorists hanging them up by their toes, lighting their hair on fire and poking them with really sharp sticks.

Now my rant is over
 
The best weapon would then be knowledge, information, and possibly empathy.
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Like maybe reading the NY Times?

"Been there done that"... going back at least 50 years... and more like 4000.

We appeased and treatied and conjoled and generally kissed Nazi a$$ and the US tried damned hard to avoid being pulled into the Second World War... because of liberal screeching and selfish isolationism.

It didn't help a damned bit... Hitler invaded Poland and Belgium and finally took over the whole of Europe... all the while we were using "The best weapons" of "knowledge, information, and... empathy" not to mention "diplomacy". I believe the NY Times was the source of the best weapons then too!

The "War on terror" is a tangled mess... Largely because of Liberally wasted efforts, and time delays, and screeching dissenters who will not see the need to protect ourselves BEFORE the enemy descends on us.

Where in this tangled hell is the end of your rope? :confused:
 
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If I hear one more bumpkin say...
"I support the war on terror" I might just snap. To give credence to the concept of engaging 'terror' with war is ludicris! What ever happened to a generation believing that the only thing to fear is fear itself? You really wanna fight 'terror'? The best weapon would then be knowledge, information, and possibly empathy. This whole 'lets draw a bigger line in the sand' BULLSH*T is starting to get to me personally. Wanna support a war against iraq? fine. Afganistan? fine. A politcal group or nation? Go for it. But against terror?! I feel it makes you sound ignorant. Might as well declare war against the dark.

Rant over. *sigh*


Same goes to attributing the motives of those that wish us harm to their 'religous fanatacism'. Meanwhile the very real effects that we may have had in their neighborhood or country has NOTHING to do with it. Nothing to see there. Just move along. Boo! Terror!
Click to expand...

“... one more bumpkin ...” Just like a lefty to resort to name-calling when you don’t get your way.

“I feel it makes you sound ignorant”. Awww. At least I know how to spell ludicrous, Afghanistan, political, religious, and fanaticism.
 
Hmmm.....

I think I'm inclined to say... that there are ways to fight terrorism and NOT have it be perpetual. First off, we have to STOP PISSING ON PEOPLE! In other words, stop exploiting other countries for their resources, stop exploiting people with slave-like working conditions and piss poor wage. The American government should make incentives on keeping companies at home, and those that go overseas should be taxed heavily, those who are caught in direct violation of human rights get shut down. Next, we need to keep big business out of government, war is a business and the American government sells itself to the highest bidder, and the American government sells contracts to the lowest bidder. (Thank you Eugene Stoner for being stoned while making that pencil jammer known as the M-16.:barf: I would think a solider on the move doesn't always have time to clean his rifle every day.) When corporations want to sieze resources from another nation, we simply set up a regime a few decades early, and then take them down later under the pretense of "for national security" so we can experiment with new toys AND expand the business. (Am I the only one who sees the parallels of modern America acting a lot like Imperial Britain?) Finally, as much as everyone is going to hate this... we should actually ask them, "Why" as in actually have delegations and know our enemy that doesn't mean surrender and give up, fight as needed but at the same time give them a line to actually communicate with our people. We are fooled and blinded into the fear tactic that "It's because they are crazy jihadis" that may be true, but "why". There is a reason behind why they are the way they are, they are people too. It can't be because they hate our freedom, because that's starting to become invalid, and they're winning the war on terror in that sense. Also if we keep asking the question "why are they doing this" and I mean seriously think of answers instead of just the blanket statements of "Because they're religious nutcases" and swallowing what the government feeds us we just might find a solution. Using force against force in the long run does nothing but perpetuate the problem, goes true for war on drugs, will also be true for war on terror.


Epyon
 
Using force against force in the long run does nothing but perpetuate the problem, goes true for war on drugs, will also be true for war on terror.
Click to expand...
Wrong. Force on force keeps the fight in the middle east and not sitting back waiting for the next skyscraper to be brought down.
 
Using force against force in the long run does nothing but perpetuate the problem
Click to expand...
Seemed to work in 1917-'18 and '42-'45. Well, sorta. For awhile. Cost a lot rebuilding and occupying trying to stabilize the economy, worrying about the Bear to the east.

According to bin Laden, his problem was... we support Israel and we have a presence in the mid-east. According to Iranian Ayatollahs, we're the Great Satan. Hezbollah?

Gonna sit down and talk to them about that and see what they really want?

Really? Seems pretty self evident to me. But whaddaIknow?

Abandon Israel? The American Jews & Christians are gonna love that, eh? We're talking the Holy Land.

Let them wipe Israel and it's citizen's off the face of the earth? Dire consequences there perhaps.

Get out of the mid-east? (At least remove our presence?)

Go France, go Russia, go China, get 'em. Fill that void.

Oil's only $77/barrel today. How many things do we use daily that have a basis of petro-chemicals?

BP shuts down Prudhoe, Venezuela loves us, & OPEC? Do I hear $80/barrel?

Talk is cheap. Bargain from a position of strength when ya can. It didn't work for the Brits relative to the mid-east for too long. You remember Chamberlain... Peace in our time? Churchill voted out while the Potsdam Conference was in session. Look at 'em today.

Hillary's got a plan. She might not have a clue yet, but she's bound to have a plan. Probably start by disarming Americans, but that's to be expected. Then we'll have 'em. She might end up an international tiger tho... look at G. Meier, I. Gandhi and M. Thatcher.

Sometimes ya end up tilting at windmills if they look like giants... at least you end up eliminating a few windmills. Or is it cutting off the head of a hydra...?

Might as well try and set up a new country or three while your at it. Call it Mesopotamia. Give it three states, Kurdistan (Turks are REALLY gonna love that), Shiiastan and Sunnistan. Back out. Watch the infighting until one strong man ends up ruling the whole mess and turns to face Israel w/ a weapon in his hand...

Think we have problems now?
 
First, after being born in Louisiana and raised in Georgia, I have the right to call anyone I please a dad gum bumpkin. Same with black people dropping the n-bomb. Just something we're able to do.

Second, silver bullet, thank you for devoiding my opinions based upon my spelling. It's been decades since last devoting this dusty brain to spelling. Besides, my keyboard sticks. Get over it.

Third, reading the NYTimes does not constitute being a left wing traitor. While I don't agree with everything they write, they seem much more willing to talk about things you won't see on the almighty foxnews/cnn.

Fourth, equating our attack/liberation of Europe against the proclaimed allies of our agressor Japan to invading Iraq is a stretch. To list the the desire for knowledge, information, and apathy as a weakness and reasoning NOT to preemptively attack other nations...well, I don't even know what to say.

Fifth, the war on 'terror' is a tangled mess, but to attribute that to 'liberally' wasted efforts and screeching dissenters who won't consume the B.S. placed in front of them is ridiculous. Everyone has practially rolled over in giving the people in charge what they wanted. What more could they really have asked for? We went to war when the people in charge pointed off in the distance and gave them the benefit of the doubt. Since then it seems that it wasn't the right direction. Do we keep going or continue plodding on a course plotted by a blind drunk captain?

Sixth, I'm buzzed, I've had enough, and I don't care what any of you say. Joab, you wanna go poke terrorists that bad? Then go take the place of the friends of mine who joined their state reserve for college money. This is all B.S. At the end of the day, It just doesn't feel right. Stick the 'bleeding heart liberal' banner on someone else. I'm just a guy who feels like what's going on 'aint right'. How many 'Nam vets look at what's going on today and wanna wave their flag proudly?

War on terror or petrodollar war. I guess it doesn't matter anymore (by the 6th white russian, finally)


Seventh, I'm psudo-intellectual now? Awesome!
 
"Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be
dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War
is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. And armies,
and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many
under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of
the Executive is extended. Its influence in dealing out offices,
honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the
minds, are added to those of subduing the force of the people. The same
malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of
fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war. . .
and in the degeneracy of manners and morals, engendered by both. No
nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." : -
James Madison, April 20, 1795


And bush is about to break the first rule of war, don't start another war till you finish the first (and he's going to mess with iran...nuclear ambitions are just as dangerous as an iranian bourse)
 
When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war. War settles nothing. — Dwight D. Eisenhower


What's changed?
 
Man has fought on many fronts

We need to realize we are at WAR. Simple, kill or be killed.

Empathy! I don't think so!!!
Kill them. Wipe the killers or would be killers off the face of this earth. They want us gone, well we can play that tune also.

Good for Bush. Vote for liberty, and vote NRA. VOTE, darn it.

They are out there, lurking and waiting, they live for one purpose and one purpose only.

Epyon.
I feel you need to be expunged. Now!

At this date, time and place there is no room for your thoughts. Sorry. Empathy is not something I can share with you. These people are out to take this world upside down, again. We are not going to let that happen. Yes in some way's this is a religious war, their thought 's and their belief's can not be tolerated.

HQ
 
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