If I find out there is a connection between Oklahoma City, McVeigh and Al Qada....

National Socialists weren't Socialists or Communists, contrary to what some people like to pretend. They didn't nationalize everything like Socialists do, and they tried to kill every Communist they could find, so it is kind of hard to call them Communists. They actively courted business interests as political supporters (instead of enemies) and gave individual buisnessmen a largely free hand do do things as they wanted, including manage their own slave labor. If anything, the Nazis were more capitalistic than the democracies that fought them were, not implementing a state-directed wartime economy until fairly late into the war. Putting them in a left-wing "socialist" mold doesn't fit.

Of course, "left" and "right" are relative terms that only make sense if the practitioners aren't bloodthirsty demagogues. Once you take one to a psychotic extreme it starts to look like the other... unlimited state power and mass murder.

You can't call every tyranical scumbag a leftist just because you dislike Democrats. Look at Ashcroft, he's about as far right as you can get appointed and what is his hobby? Curtailing civil rights and expanding police powers. But then again, Republicans never were much better at ideological consistency than Democrats.
 
The problem with OKC and 9-11 is no one ever claimed responsibility for either. That's very unlike the Islamic terrorists. They usually fall all over each other claiming responsibility for everything that happens.

So, what would be the purpose of the OKC bombing? Sure, to hurt America, but what good is it if you don't have a warning attached for the US to keep out of the ME (or some such agenda)?

The hot-headed whack job theory still makes the most sense to me.
 
I've always thought McVeigh was the fall guy. It just seems TOO convient. Also there was John Doe II and didn't he look like some Al Quedha agent that was nailed for trying to bomb Chicago?
Now I don't know if theres some conspiracy, or any truth behind it, but Clinton did use OK for his own means.
 
"-A.N. is a very, very powerful explosive. There are two classes of explosives, fast and slow. Fast can crack rocks, slow can toss them for miles. Two different forms of "power". If you want to crack a huge rock and then dig it away, you use dynamite. If you want it to land a block away, you put A.N. down on top of the dynamite."

ANFO (ammonium nitrate fuel oil) isn't a "powerful explosive" by any account. It's a cheap "earth mover" similar to ditching dynamite & certainly no high-order explosive - you use it to move things, not to shear 'em apart. & nothing tosses "them for miles."

Neither dynamite or ANFO can explain the shearing of steel columns inside the OK bldg - that takes high-order explosives along the lines of shaped-charged C4 or the like.

Why was the OK fed-bldg so "smashed" & those across the street not-so? "Shaped charge? Right .....

& the whole bldg's mass & debris was hauled away, buried & sealed off for any further examination ....

Too many unanswered questions for my feeble brain.
 
thanks for bringing those points up, Labgrade. I was tempted, but you stated it much more succinctly than I would have.
 
Thank you labgrade, I'm glad you gave the physics lesson, I've gone blue in the face before trying to explain there's no way that Fertilizer mixed with anything (nitromethane included) did that. No way. Hopefully, someday we'll know more.


MatthewM, seen you were inquiring about manuals. Army FM on explosives and demolitions has some excellent reference and math to help understand this hoax in its entirity. ANFO won't launch rock for miles, if well tamped into a bored face you will hear a small crack from the booster and a low rumble and voila a new pile of rock will be at the base of the face. Moving equipment can be 50ft away if blaster is not a knucklehead. It breaks the rock only because it is tamped tightly in the bore(mechanically coupled) as opposed to air coupled at a distance as we are led to believe. Power falls off dramatically as distance increases. Explosives are classes as low and high, low being gunpowder and the like(deflagrants) and high being those that detonate. ANFO is on the low end of high with a flame front in the 4,000-6000 fps range. Compare to C-4 at around 24,000fps. ANFO heaves, C-4 and the like cut and burst things extremely well. The OKC columns were cut.
 
Here's a good article on what we know so far, based on the investigation of reporter Jayna Davis:
http://www.apfn.org/OKC/middle_eastern.htm

Judicial Watch has used the available evidence to sue Iraq:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/cases/86/complaint.html

Malone LaVeigh wrote, "The problem with OKC and 9-11 is no one ever claimed responsibility for either."
Actually, according to the above case, Abdul Hakim Murad (already in jail at the time for planning to bomb five 747s) claimed responsibility for OKC on behalf of Ramzi Youssef’s “liberation army.” Ramzi Youssef was the Iraqi agent who planned the first WTC bombing (for which he is now in jail) and allegedly planned OKC as well.
 
Nitromethane + "ingredients" could have, in shaped charges, made an acceptable enough shearing agent to bring down the colums, but they'd have to be placed appropriately. Kinda does away with the "just a truck theory," though, no?

Without the shearing actions, the destruction of the OK fed-bldg, ... well, I don't see how it could have happened.

Whatever .... the power of even (what?) 5, 10 tons of ANFO (can you carry that much in a 1-ton van?) couldn't have done the destruction of the OK fed-bldg & even with a "shaped charge" directed totally towards the fed-bldg, ... just does't figure for the structural damage & that of non-existent across-the-street damage - back-blast, etc. included ..... pretty tough to do a shaped-charge with a low-order ANFO - they just don't work that way & I'm no ordance-guy by any account.

Nothing else, why was everything bull-dozed, dumped & hidden afterwards?

I dunno, & I'm not even gonna speculate on Flight 800 ..... except that we're not getting the truth.

& other than that - why's that?
 
IIRC, in McVeigh's book, he was attempting to determine how to arrange the drums to inflict the greatest damage toward the federal building.
 
McVeigh did admit the bombing to the reporters who wrote "American Terrorist." If I remember correctly, his court plan was to admit the crime and put the government on trial, but his lawyer convinced him not to, partly because he thought the judge wouldn't allow it.
 
OKC and Waco were supposed to have expidited our
complete takeover by the NWO. Klinton failed, so now we are in plan B, B for Bush.

The unfolding events that have occured within in the last 11 months have only served to further erode our rights.

Waterdog
 
Waterdog, are you saying that there might be a link to Osama and 41? Perhaps he setup the trouble as a favor to 41 to give W a cause to ride to a NWO? I'm not paranoid enough to accept that.
 
To put Navy joe's good explanation into a nutshell:

There ain't no way McVeigh's truck bomb did that kind of damage to a building. Not possible. It's not even a good fairy tale. Ergo, we've been had.

Again.



Neo-Nazi's and Arab extremists? Natural match - they both hate Jews enough to be willling to work together. In the Neo-Nazi "mind", Jews run this country, so hitting the Federal gummit is hitting Jews. And Nazis have never worried much about details like killing innocent children. After all, they're the spawn of Jew loving Federal gummit workers, right?



:barf:
 
Digging up this old thread because I still think its a possibility.


Jayna Davis was on a local radio station again and she made a few predictions about Terry Nichols trial and she was absolutely correct. She believes that the Feds were re-writing the laws so that Nichols wouldn't be given the death penalty if he spills the beans. Apparently, under law, he would be given the death penalty for collaborating with a foreign terrorist organization ( Al Qaeda in the Phillipines/Ramsi Youseff). The laws would be re-written before Nichols would be sentenced and he would get life in prison.

He was sentenced to life in prison a few months ago which I find odd. How could he not be given the death penalty?

Anyone want to add on the Sandy Berger incedent?
 
Hi. guys, I just joined TFL, this is my first post.

I don't know if there was a vast conspiracy involving the OKC bombing. Maybe, maybe not. One thing I am convinced of, tho, is that Tim McVeigh did not get a fair trial. He probably did the deed, or had a hand in it, but his trial was a farce.

Read Others Unknown by Stephen Jones, McVeigh's chief defense attorney. It will make you wonder.
 
I don't get it. Why would folks even think there was an Al Queda connection to OKC and McVeigh?

I think people are seeing too many Muslims under every rock, a sort of McCarthy approach only it isn't Communists, but Muslims.

The number of implicated Communists cost McCarthy credibility as most were not communists. Similarly, more than likely there won't be as many actual Al Queda ties as perceived. Right now, it seems to just be a hot button topic to blame Al Queda for everything going wrong in some form or fashion.

I appreciate y'all's belief that the truck bomb could not have done what it did, but if you take the time to look at the architecture of the building, it had a serious design weakness where by if the main suppored running across the building was damaged and moved, everything above would collapse down...which happened.
 
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