I live in Florida and recall having a detailed discussion at one time on this with several knowledgable people. Several other southern states (can't remember which ones) were also mentioned in the discussion. I happened to do a search and came across this information concerning New York in what I thought was a knowledgable and detailed writing on this matter.
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If a person shoots and kills a person in self defense....
- Thread starter Skans
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About reporting crimes in general or about the specific topic of this thread?I live in Florida and recall having a detailed discussion at one time on this with several knowledgable people.
Frank Ettin
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Since when does fear of getting caught counterbalance guilt. Haven't you ever done anything you didn't want anyone to know about? Weren't you ever afraid of getting found out? Didn't you have any feeling of guilt about what you had done?Skans said:...There is no fear to counterbalance the guilt....
These are a common set of feelings in human experience.
OldMarksman
Staff
But, I can only suppose that if I were in a situation where I (for whatever reason) chose to not report a self-defense shooting, that yes, I could do those things [(go to your job the next day as if nothing had happened?, etc.)]
Or, at least I think I could, if it meant saving my life, saving the life that I worked hard to create, saving my family from grief, etc. I think you'd be suprised at what a man can do when faced with the fear of losing everything he's got, especially if that man didn't create the situation in which he was forced to kill someone in self defense.
OK, so you think you could act normally after shooting someone and trying to hide the fact. However, most of the things that would determine whether you get caught, after which you would certainly be convicted, are beyond your control. Both categories of risk--those involving your giving yourself away unwittingly and those involving the solution of a murder by authorities perhaps not yet out of school when the shooting occurred, using technology and techniques that no one dreamed of two or three decades ago--would hang over your head for the rest of your life. Should it turn out poorly for you, as it most likely would, you would be facing some very serious charges that carry with them very severe penalties.
Let's compare that with the affirmative defense route. Assuming that you did in fact have reason to believe that deadly force was necessary; that you can provide some credible evidence to that effect; that you did not use excessive force or do something that gives the appearance of your having acted in mutual combat or to protect property, or having instigated the confrontation, etc.; your chance of not being charged or at least of not being convicted should be much lower, and if you should fail in your defense, you would face some kind of manslaughter charge.
Both the likelihood of your losing and the potential penalty would undoubtedly much higher with the former approach.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Let's get some additional perspective from an outside source.
"...I am not recommending that anyone flee the scene of a justifiable homicide,...In fact, after reviewing the precautions such a flight will require, most of you will properly conclude that it's far too involved and risky to succeed -- and that's my point here. Call 911; don't flee..." (Boston T. Party, Boston's Gun Bible, Javelin Press, 2002, pg 5/2)
And --
"...Criminals have a better practical chance of getting away with ...flight because they have prior experience (you don't), they can plan for it (you got surprised , and thus retrospectively left many inadvertent clues). They have the immediate support of the criminal underworld (you don't). They are ruthless (you are just an average person), they feel no gullt (you will, at least in the form of doubt)...." (Boston T. Party, pg 5/10)
So let's be realistic.
"...I am not recommending that anyone flee the scene of a justifiable homicide,...In fact, after reviewing the precautions such a flight will require, most of you will properly conclude that it's far too involved and risky to succeed -- and that's my point here. Call 911; don't flee..." (Boston T. Party, Boston's Gun Bible, Javelin Press, 2002, pg 5/2)
And --
"...Criminals have a better practical chance of getting away with ...flight because they have prior experience (you don't), they can plan for it (you got surprised , and thus retrospectively left many inadvertent clues). They have the immediate support of the criminal underworld (you don't). They are ruthless (you are just an average person), they feel no gullt (you will, at least in the form of doubt)...." (Boston T. Party, pg 5/10)
So let's be realistic.
Pretty much. The OP posits a righteous self defense shooting. But if he's not willing to stick around and produce evidence that his actions were legally justified, it's hard to say that we're not talking about getting away with manslaughter, at the very least.Glenn Dee said:Are we talking about how to get away with murder here?
Are we talking about how to get away with murder here?
It would seem, in essence, that is exactly what we are discussing.
* NOTE: I cannot believe that he moderators have let this discussion degrade to this level....but that's where we are.
If you shoot someone in what you perceive to be "self defense" then I cannot fathom that you would even consider an alternative other than to report it, give a brief statement of the circumstances, and "lawyer up" anything else is....well, an attempt to seemingly " get away with murder".
CarterMccoy
New member
Lawbiding citizen
You are a LAW BIDING CITIZEN.
YOU REPORT ALL VIOLENT ACTIONS TO THE POLICE.
YOU WERE "IN FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE".
Questions?
Doc.
You are a LAW BIDING CITIZEN.
YOU REPORT ALL VIOLENT ACTIONS TO THE POLICE.
YOU WERE "IN FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE".
Questions?
Doc.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Bottom line: REPORT -- DON'T RUN
In many (of not most) states self defense is an affirmative defense.
To avail yourself of the self defense exception you must admit the act of murder (the willful killing of another person).
You then point to the allowed exceptions.
Virginia has NO statute law covering the use of lethal force. NONE.
ALL the Virginia law is case (common) law.
That said, it is a solid body of law incorporating justifiable and excusable self defense (the difference depending on involvement before the use of lethal force).
Failing to report, and then defend yourself in legal action will result in a murder conviction, since you did indeed willfully kill another person.
To avail yourself of the self defense exception you must admit the act of murder (the willful killing of another person).
You then point to the allowed exceptions.
Virginia has NO statute law covering the use of lethal force. NONE.
ALL the Virginia law is case (common) law.
That said, it is a solid body of law incorporating justifiable and excusable self defense (the difference depending on involvement before the use of lethal force).
Failing to report, and then defend yourself in legal action will result in a murder conviction, since you did indeed willfully kill another person.
Um, this moderator just read this thread. sigh. Nobody reported this?OuTcAsT said:It would seem, in essence, that is exactly what we are discussing.Glenn Dee said:Are we talking about how to get away with murder here?
* NOTE: I cannot believe that he moderators have let this discussion degrade to this level....but that's where we are.
Skans, if you are involved in a self defense shooting, wherein you cause the death of another, and you do not report it, you have in effect committed murder.
That's what the law will see and if they find you. You will most likely be found guilty of one sort of homicide or another. I doubt your chances of being acquitted for justifiable homicide... Not after you negligently leave the scene.
Gee! Isn't that what everybody else has said?
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