IDPA Points Down Rule Change goes from 1/2 sec to 1 sec... Thoughts?

R

Radny97

New member
Just saw that IDPA announced that they are changing their scoring so that each point down equates to a one second penalty rather than a one half second penalty. Meaning that accuracy just became a MUCH bigger deal in IDPA. This also differentiates IDPA substantially from USPSA's emphasis on speed over accuracy.
Personally I like the change because I think it makes IDPA quite a bit different from USPSA and diversifies the types of shooting sports that are available. Personally I'm not enamored with all the focus in USPSA on rapid "mag changes" and other types of rapid drills that don't have a lot to do with putting a bullet on target.
I'd appreciate everyone's thoughts on this change by IDPA.
 
IDPA was ALREADY considered to put more emphasis on accuracy than USPSA.
There is no need for a change.

An abrupt change in the rules only four months into the latest revision is itself bad, even if the change were needed, which it is not.
 
An unnecessary solution to a non-existant problem, IMO. IDPA's a game, not SD training. And compared to USPSA, it already emphasized accuracy, and differentiated itself in numerous other ways.
 
That seems to be a lot. Considering the focus is supposed to be on "production" guns, most production guns aren't target level pistols. This definitely doesn't square with the new conceal carry category just put into practice. I know my M&Pc, which I occasionally run to help keep in practice with it, will be massively outclassed now.
 
IDPA was ALREADY considered to put more emphasis on accuracy than USPSA.
There is no need for a change.

An abrupt change in the rules only four months into the latest revision is itself bad, even if the change were needed, which it is not.
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Absolutely correct.

An unnecessary solution to a non-existant problem, IMO. IDPA's a game, not SD training. And compared to USPSA, it already emphasized accuracy, and differentiated itself in numerous other ways.
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You beet me to the punch. Amazing how the discipline they wanted to distance themselves from they are leaning toward to.
Lets fix what isn't broken:rolleyes:
 
At this rate, the folks at IDPA might be changing their target design to a Bullseye type.
Nothing wrong with more emphasis on accuracy, though.
Always an important aspect of effective shooting.
Personally, I think IDPA has way too many rules.
Especially for a discipline that's supposed to put more emphasis on reality.
And their matches do seem to be looking more and more like the other guys', aren't they?
Curiouser and curiouser.
 
I know it was mentioned by the higher ups at the Tulsa match, but does the OP have an actual citation that this is official?

It has been discussed on several forums since the Tulsa match.
 
I haven't seen an announcement to the membership, but from what I've seen on the IDPA forum, the change is going to be instituted on 2017.
I know a few guys who were on the tiger teams, and never heard mention of a change in scoring as even having been considered.
Agree that IDPA is already the practical shooting sport that emphasizes accuracy, so do we need to tip it even further?
I've seen some analysis of Master-class classifier scores, and some have three points down, and others have more than twenty points down; does that mean shooters will be demoted if their score includes "too many" dropped points?
How do you alter the classification standards, when the score is time, with no consideration of whether that time is mostly speed or mostly accuracy?
 
I have an actual citation from the Tactical Brief email newsletter 9/29/15. We are not speculating or making stuff up.

"IDPA Board issues change to Point Down penalty

Last week at the World Championship awards banquet, I announced that the IDPA Board of Directors has elected to increase the Point Down penalty from a half second to 1 second. The BoD is comprised of two MA shooters (both Founders of the sport) and one EX with a combined total of more than 57 years of IDPA experience. This decision was made to keep the sport aligned with the founder's intent of valuing accuracy over speed. As concealed carry holders, which many of our members are, we are responsible for every round that leaves our gun, and IDPA needs to reflect that in our practices. I met with some of the Area Coordinators recently to share this information and the feedback received from them was very positive. There is no hard timetable for this change. Classification scores and other areas will need to reflect the change, and we are already working with some of our scoring vendors on this change. More information will be available as the work progresses and we will make updates on this via the Tactical Journal and Tactical Brief."

Note that the "I" and maybe the "we" in this official announcement is Mrs Joyce Wilson, who seems to be the spokesperson for IDPA management if not the queen bee.
 
2017 is a long time.

The more I think:
1. It helps me personally, as I tend to be substantially more accurate than fast.
2. If the intent is accuracy, they should up the points for missed shots, FTNs, and hitting non threats, and not in increasing the penalties on actual good hits.
3. In light of #1 I can adapt.
4. Does this drive others to physically shoot more rounds to get 0s, making it more like USPSA?
 
Jim, not saying anyone is making it up, I had just not heard that it was definitely going to happen.

Along with Michael Bane (who attended the Columbia Invitational) and Tom Judd, I started the 3rd IDPA club in the country, a match which still runs to this day and my first thought is that Mrs. Wilson needs a history lesson on the origins of IDPA.

My second thought is that Mrs. Wilson makes a grave error when she keeps trying to say that IDPA is practice and CCW training. It is a game. If she wants a sport based on CCW tactics and methods, all stages blind, at least half in the dark, and a panel to judge your actions, methods and shot placement. A timer and a scoresheet makes it an action shooting competition and the best any of them do is enhance gun handling and shooting skills.

Third thought is that the scores of the older shooters just went up in comparison to the younger shooters. To me, it will make IDPA even more of a Pedestrian sport and keep the 20-30 crowd away more so than in the past. We already see about a 15 year average age gap between our IDPA and USPSA shooters, this will increase that gap. i do not think that is good for either sport BTW.

Fourth thought is that there will competitors who end up shooting more rounds to make up hits once the understanding becomes that stage runs with no points down will almost be required. That will, in essence require another rules which will end up making all stages Limited scoring to avoid stages being gamed.
 
MarkCO said:
To me, it will make IDPA even more of a Pedestrian sport and keep the 20-30 crowd away more so than in the past.
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Yup, that, too. IDPA seems bent on discouraging the better shooters from participating, and actively pushing them towards USPSA & 3-gun. It saddens me to say, but IDPA is the kiddy pool of runNgun games. The top shooters I know generally only show up at nationals, and do so reluctantly and because their sponsors tell them to.

Adding to that is that IDPA seems to insist on coon-fingering the rule book. People just want to know the rules and shoot, but the rules keep changing (and rarely for the better). And I know of 2 big IDPA matches in my area that won't be an IDPA match next year because ROs are harder to find and keep, and major matches are just too hard to put on.

In the end, frequent rule changes and more penalties aren't likely to change the overall standings much, but it'll sure change the makeup, profile and satisfaction of the participants. Already has.
 
So, Mark, you have dropped out of IDPA? I thought the Tactical Brief went to all members.

Any road, we can only speculate on second and third order effects, but I think the perception of IDPA as wishy-washy might be the worst.

I also think there will be a lot of clubs going outlaw, even if it is just to shoot IDPA 1997, 2005, or 2015. Surely not 2013 with the flat footed reload, though.

I am in the OFS Division that our detractors ridicule and I will not make any drastic change in my shooting, although I am shooting a couple of outlaw events conveniently located and the occasional IPSC match. I might have, if the many Divisions USPSA set up in imitation of IDPA were not falling off. Single stack and L10 are apparently goners and I do not care enough to buy a 23 shooter for Limited.
 
Yes Jim, I dropped my IDPA membership years ago. However, I believe all trigger time is good time and I know that my preferences are not other people's preferences. In that vein, I actually started 2 new IDPA clubs since I dropped out and I do occasionally shoot a few stages and talk to my club members who enjoy shooting IDPA. I help run a lot of matches for shooting sports I do not particularly prefer.

I shoot USPSA Production with my 3Gun M&P, also IDPA legal. It is the 2nd largest division and the competition is pretty good. I stopped shooting my Glocks in limited once I made A class and honestly, I do not miss it a bit. With minor scoring, Production is close to what the original scoring intent of IDPA was, but granted without cover and tactical mag changes. Shooting points can beat speed in USPSA production and we have seen that proven time and time again.
 
Yes, Production is the only thing that seems to have stuck after Sedro Wooley decided to quit encouraging members to violate AWB1994.

But I prefer shooting my 1911 to the Plastic M&P.
 
I just watched Vickers, with Hackathorn, on their opinions as to why IDPA needs to go to 1 point = 1 second. Just shook my head.

Maybe yet another sport will emerge as a result. That would not be all bad. :D
 
Kvetching at the Carolina Cup?
Note that was 2011.
Wonder how much IDPA he has shot in the past 4 years.

I don't know why non-participants feel so qualified to tell me what I am doing wrong.

I wonder if there is a communication from Vickers to Joyce Wilson on the subject or is he just capitalizing on "IDPA finally does it my way" to promote his training courses.
 
Now how about if they modified the rules so if you miss the first shot, the target shoots you?

A ridiculous game made only a tiny fraction less ridiculous by this change.
 
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