IDPA Guns

RickB said:
Division magazine capacity is ten.
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I understand your point, but please note: the RULE BOOK doesn't say DIVISION MAGAZINE CAPACITY is 10 rounds for SSP, it says DIVISION CAPACITY for SSP is 10 rounds (and that is interpreted as magazine capacity).

The Rule Book, in Rule 3.11, says firearm and magazines must be loaded to division capacity. For SSP, our example, that's 10, not 10+1. Firearm and magazine.

The most direct argument in support of your statement is Rule 8.1.2.1, which says, " All magazines must be loaded to division capacity at the start signal throughout the match except in the following cases:" That's the point Robert (at IDPA) made in his reply. So IDPA says 10+1 is OK. I'm OK with that, too. (Start is the beep, not the "Load and Make Ready" command.)

But Division Capacity seems to mean different things, depending on the division.

Rule 8.1.3.7 says, "In SSP, ESP, CCP, and CDP, and semi-auto BUG the shooter will also start with one round in the chamber, unless the CoF description requires otherwise." Using the same interpretation of DIVISION CAPACITY as is applied to SSP, that would mean the BUG starts with 1 in the chamber and 6 in the mag.

But...

Rule 8.2.6.6.2.5 say, "In BUG semi-auto the shooter will start with one round in the chamber and 5 rounds in the magazine, and 6 rounds in each additional magazine." What happened to division capacity=mag capacity?

There is a lack of clarity and consistency in some of the rules. I understand NOW what is intended, but as a one-time technical writer, I think the Rules could use a little TLC... (And I'm not volunteering for the job...)

It actually seems to be a bigger issue with BUG than with SSP -- as there is a long history of precedent with the SSP, ESP, CCP, and CDP +1 practice.
 
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Rule 8.2.6.6.2.5 say, "In BUG semi-auto the shooter will start with one round in the chamber and 5 rounds in the magazine, and 6 rounds in each additional magazine." What happened to division capacity=mag capacity?
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That's a special case, that ensures everyone shooting BUG, auto and revolver alike (if the gun will hold six rounds), starts with six rounds in the gun. It's written differently, because it is different.
 
That's a special case, that ensures everyone shooting BUG, auto and revolver alike (if the gun will hold six rounds), starts with six rounds in the gun. It's written differently, because it is different.
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It's certainly a special case, but really not much different than someone using a SIG P225/P8 (or other older single stack 9mm or .40 guns that holds fewer than 10 rounds) in SSP... Revolvers and semi-autos don't have to be equal elsewhere, and all of the smaller, 5-round Smiths still compete with 6-round semis and revolvers.

How DIVISION CAPACITY is applied, however, seems different.
 
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Yeah, they really mucked about with BUG.
I am glad they made it a main match division, but they also obsoleted the world of Chief's Specials and .380s. And I just had put better sights on my .380.
 
Yeah, "something" is going to have to be done about the conflict inherent in allowing .380, but then setting the minimum powerfactor at 95.
We were planning a BUG match for the end of May, and started with "no chrono and no calibrated steel", to encourage people to shoot .380.
 
As a technical writer and editor, I have to agree with Walt Sherrill's reading of rule 3.11. There is simply no intellectually honest way of reading "Firearms and magazines must always be loaded to the shooter’s division capacity ..." to mean "Firearms shall be pre-loaded with one round and all magazines shall be loaded to division magazine capacity."

Rule 3.11 is inconsistent with the other rules, and it appears that the IDPA leadership is either unable to understand that, or unwilling to admit that the rules are self-contradictory.
 
Unfortunately, you have to read two different paragraphs to get to 10+1.

Perhaps unfortunately, if you apply your interpretation and do not load 10+1, you will be penalized.

Or you could look into the new and exciting GADPA programme which says you may manage your ammunition as you wish.
 
There are enough rules about which there's little agreement, that we shouldn't waste our time on the rule about which the enforcement is universally understood! :)
 
RickB said:
There are enough rules about which there's little agreement, that we shouldn't waste our time on the rule about which the enforcement is universally understood!
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There are often disagreements, but not generally because the rules are contradictory or aren't understood. Some people just think some of the rules are a bit arbitrary. That's OK -- they are the rules -- and we can go play elsewhere if we find them an obstacle. But when the rules are unclear or contradictory, it's different.
 
Take a look around the Shooting Rules folder at the IDPA forum.
There are LOTS of rules that aren't understood.
 
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