I'd like to pose a CCW question to the forum

The lot is the companies property but the car is your property at least the interior I believe has been rules in court to be personal and protected.
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In some cases, your vehicle protected from warrantless searches and seizures by law enforcement under the 4th Amendment. However, the protections for your vehicle are far less extensive than those protecting real property (i.e. land), which is paramount and sacrosanct under the U.S. civil law system. The 4th Amendment protection against illegal search and seizure in places other than your own land (eg. your car, your apartment, your friend's house, etc.) has, in most cases, been established by court precedent. It's subject to LOTS of caveats, exceptions, and interpretations. In most cases, real property rights override those rights. For instance, a landlord can demand the search of a tenant's space with few legal restricitions, because the landlords owns the land and his or her property rights are paramount.
Point number two is that neither government nor private corporations have the right to search your car without your consent. That's a right that is well established and solidly anchored in the Consititution itself. So don't give anyone permission to screw with your car.
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1) The Constitution doesn't say anything about vehicles. (The word "property" as enumerated in the Bill of Rights means land; see above.) Any "Constitutional" rights extending to vehicles only do so through court precedent; see above.

2) The Constitution does not govern or restrict the conduct of individuals and corporations. It governs the conduct of the federal government and (post-14th Amendment) the states.
Ask HR why they think they can single out firearms to extend the company's reach into your personal vehicle. Do they prohibit alcohol? What if you were heading to a picnic after work and had case on ice in the trunk? Do they prohibit CD's with offensive language? Pornography? Cigarettes? If not why not?
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Because a mentally unstable employee can't kill a bunch of people with a gangsta rap CD, a dirty magazine, or a cigarette. :rolleyes:

This issue boils down to liability. Companies are afraid that a workplace massacre involving a firearm could result in a wrongful-death lawsuit against the company for "recklessly allowing" a psycho employee to possess a firearm on company property. All it would take is a good anti-gun trial lawyer, a sympathetic jury, and a loosey-goosey state district court, and millions of bucks from the company coffers would go down the drain. :(
 
Point number two is that neither government nor private corporations have the right to search your car without your consent.
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First, there is no consent requirement for the government to search your car if they can show probable cause or if they have a warrant to search. Second, by entering onto property you often have already given consent to search, depending on assorted rules and regulations--think entering a military base or prison. Third, the Constitution does not prohibit private individuals from conducting searches at all.
Point number three is that if a weapon is found in your car, then it was found in an illegal and unconstitutional manner. In that case, you will be fired.
Then you can bring a humongous lawsuit agains the company for violating your Constitutional rights and also be paid for all your back pay while off the job.
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While you might be fired, and should be, IMO, there is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about it in this situation. Don't count on getting a lawsuit loke that past the intitial presentation where the judge looks at it and throws it out.
 
Ask HR why they think they can single out firearms to extend the company's reach into your personal vehicle.
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They don't single out firearms, as a rule. Generally there are a number of things that you are prohibited from bringing onto company lots. But even if they did they are well within their rights, pending some other legislation. The company provides the parking lot for you to use and the compnay can control what goes on in that lot. The compnay can even tell you what space you can park in and what space you cannot use. You agree to follow their rules in exchange for the privilige of parking there. Public lots would have different restrictions, I would think.
If someone with a CCW permit gets robbed or rapped going to or from work and is unarmed because of the company policy, does the company assume responsibility because their workplace policy extended into the employee's personal time/space and left them unable to defend themselves?
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No. You voluntarily put yourself into the situation. Nobody has forced you to go to work for that company, park on their lot, or stop at the place you got robbed or raped. As you have put yourself into that situation of your own free will you have accepted the responsibility, again depending on certain other factors.
 
Point number two is that neither government nor private corporations have the right to search your car without your consent. That's a right that is well established and solidly anchored in the Consititution itself. So don't give anyone permission to screw with your car.
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This is misinformation. The constitutional prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures applies only to governmental action. It is not applicable to private conduct. By accepting and continuing employment with a private employer who has deemed it appropriate to prohibit firearms on its premises, you have impliedly consented to searches designed to enforce the policy.

Point number three is that if a weapon is found in your car, then it was found in an illegal and unconstitutional manner. In that case, you will be fired.
Then you can bring a humongous lawsuit agains the company for violating your Constitutional rights and also be paid for all your back pay while off the job.
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This is also wrong. There is no valid cause of action that I know of against a private citizen (corporation) that has violated your "constitutional" rights. A lawsuit for "wrongful termination" on the basis that you were fired by your private employer for violating its policy prohibiting firearms on its property would lose in every state of which I am aware (though I am certainly not an expert on the laws of any state other than Virginia).

Without, I hope, seeming to flame you, I would point out that it is highly irresponsible to give such erroneous advice when a guy's livelihood is potentially at stake.

My advice -- if you can't tolerate and abide by the company's prohibition of firearms, get another job. Do NOT blithely assume that you won't be fired for violating the policy, or that, if you are fired, you will recover anything in a subsequent lawsuit.
 
QUOTE: Point number two is that neither government nor private corporations have the right to search your car without your consent. That's a right that is well established and solidly anchored in the Consititution itself. So don't give anyone permission to screw with your car.

I worked for a very large airplane jet engine manufacturing company and their policy was no guns, booze, drugs etc on your person on in your vehicle. If they suspected you of violating the rules and you refused a a body or vehicle search, security personnel were called to redeem the company's plant identification badge from you and then the security personnel escorted you off the property. Without the badge you were not allowed to re-enter the plant site. Case closed, and this held up in court just recently. Florida has a take your gun to work law, but there are many exceptions to the law and many companies that don't allow guns on their
property. If you don't like their company policy find someplace else to work that allows personnal weapons on their property. Their is an opportunity cost for everything we do.
 
Without, I hope, seeming to flame you, I would point out that it is highly irresponsible to give such erroneous advice when a guy's livelihood is potentially at stake.
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I am flameproof so don't worry about me.

This issue is far from being settled, and it's likely to be settled in favor of the individual.
This is not unlike the CCW permit carry issue itself when it was illegal to carry in all states. Now, well, we've come a long way.

Here's a discussion that shows how active this particular issue is and I think you can see it's probable outcome in legislative action.
http://akeyboardanda45.blogspot.com/2008/12/employer-parking-lots-and-firearms-poll.html

For my part, I carry in lot's of places where you aren't supposed to, and I'll take my chances in court with a jury of my peers if the time ever comes.
The only place I don't and won't carry is in a Court House, and I agree that it's not smart to carry there because of the various felons that are roaming the halls throughout the day that could make use of your firearm (plus, the metal detectors at every door show how serious they are about not carrying there :eek: )
 
I have been asking friends, relatives and follow workers their thoughts on the CCW's laws. Most gun owners and people with CC permits, on the most part, have no idea how the non gun owner feels about the subject. The majority of non owners, non carriers would allow the ownership of guns but not the right to carry. This also applies to taking weapons to the workplace. But the majority also stated they were against any action that Obamanation may take.
 
QUOTE: For my part, I carry in lot's of places where you aren't supposed to, and I'll take my chances in court with a jury of my peers if the time ever comes..................

In Florida your peers would not make an exception of your willful violation of the law. Most gun law violators are given the max time permitted in JAIL. Please stay in Texas, we don't need any bad press about CC gun violations here in Florida. If CC violations should escalate, I am quite sure the states and Federal government would put an end to the privilage.
 
Huzzah! as they used to say. I wish more people would think about that before they post. Folks, for those of us that ARE honest, ethical, law-abiding gun owners, every time you post "I don't care what the rules are or what the law is I'm going to carry anyway" you just give the rest of us a bad name.
 
This issue is far from being settled, and it's likely to be settled in favor of the individual.
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Actually it is quite settled, and has been settled in favor of the employer. The only issue really open to discussion at this point is in those few states that have passed some sort of protection bill that has changed the law.
 
David Armstrong has it right.

Under the present state of the law in most states, if not all, the individual would not win a lawsuit over being fired for possessing a handgun on his private employer's property in viloation of the employer's written rules.

The debate over a proposed legislative change to the existing law in Texas is interesting, but it does not support a claim that an employer in another state is likely to prevail in such a case. After all, Texas is already on of the state MOST protective of the individual's right to keep and bear arms (though why it prohibits open carry is beyond me).
 
You know, I'd be tempted to just store a dozen rounds, as well as a dozen fired casings in my car for a few months to see if their gun-sniffing dog is any good...
 
Point made

I think the biggest point made in all these posts would be, "If you can't afford to fight being terminated don't break company policy."

This is especially true in an "At will" employment state like Maine where I live. You can quit without notice here and you can be fired without reason and you have no case unless you can prove discrimination.

The company I work for has prohibited smoker's from smoking on company property even though our customers can smoke right up to the door. Even if you're there on your day off and you are spotted by a member of management smoking in the parking lot you can be terminated - according to management.

So far, it hasn't been tested by management but I've seen smokers puffin away. I doubt they'd be so forgiving if it were a firearm in a vehicle though. That is specifically prohibited and so stated in the employee handbook.

At least I live in an area where I don't feel the need to carry for protection on my way to and from work, I'm thankful for that.
 
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You can quit without notice here

That phrase in company handbooks always makes me laugh since slavery was outlawed quite some time ago
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As someone who has authored more than a few company handbooks, I can tell you that the reference to your ability to quit without notice is an attempt to justify in your mind why the company should have a parallel right to terminate your employment without notice. Otherwise, you're right it is pretty much meaningless.

That doesn't mean that an employee cannot negotiate for a contract that is NOT terminable without cause or notice. But the companies have the bargaining power -- unless you're a football coach or a pro athlete.

Pardon the threadjack.
 
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