I want to become a gunsmith.

I realized this is a very old thread, but thought I'd toss in my .02.

There are many courses out there - online and in trade schools, be very wary of any school and do your investigation. Consult other gun enthusiasts, join your local NRA or shooting chapter and get to know your local law enforcment officers. In doing this you are setting up a line of contacts and potential customers. In the beginning you certainly will not be able to survive off gunsmith wages and will be running a part time shop. If you get accepted to a professional smith shop these are machinist's wages - $12-$20/hour - consider yourself lucky and learn everything you can.

Just like an artist this is a labor of love. You will work long hours, often dragging small projects with you to get that last piece ready for a customer. The problem is most firearms are very reliable and don't break often. With the modular concept most gun fixes are simply - take bad part out, put good part in and do a little tuning, although this is highly dependent upon the model.

I got my start working in a retail sporting goods department - developed a reputation as being knowledgeable and responding to what the customers were asking for. I had a great interest in military/law enforcement and received sponsorship from my local department to take numerous armorers courses. Once established in my local department I offered up armorer services to surrounding small departments. I was the only GLOCK armorer in the area and made decent money considering the hours invested. During this time I interned under one of the state's leading firearms instructors and receiving certification as a primary and intermediate weapons instructor.

Two key points on dealing with law enforcement - I never charged a fellow officer on a duty weapon - either billed to the department or wrote it off as an in-service. I received compensation through organizations or work on private pieces. I would also keep track on the qualification shoots of the surrounding departments and be on hand at the range for a free weapons checkup - cleaning up spent casings as payment to feed my shooting hobby.

For anyone thinking of pursuing the military route expect a long road of paying your dues, but training and experience you cannot put a price on. During my enlistment I spent every waking hour with the armorers running T&Es on new weapons and working with some of the best shooters on the planet.

As kraigwy posted - grab the small jobs! The larger firms want to sell complete packages and modifications - cater your business to the needs of your clients and you will do well.

If you are considering striking out on your own make sure all your bases are covered - establish an LLC, make sure you are properly insured, and befriend a lawyer who needs some smithing. I would also recommend establishing contact with your local federal LE, BATFE in particular, to protect yourself in this political climate. I have been very lucky operating in WI - very antigun, but have a good friend in the ATF who keeps me updated with any new interpretations.
 
MSC

contact Dean Arnold at Murray State College in Tishomingo, OK
this is a state college with a fine 2 year gunsmithing program...
mills and lathes...stocks...etc..bob dunlap and other wll known smiths
come and teach summer classes...dean is a first class smith himself.
I've known dean a number of years and some of his students have gone
on to jobs with the feds, sig, custom shops, etc....if not MSC, look for another gun school with talented people and a good reputation.
 
The one thing that you want to learn is safety.
What guns will take what. How to check and headspace correctly.
Cut shotgun barrels for chokes, know when they are too thin.
How to work on the trigger of hundreds of weapons.
There are so many safety issues when it comes to firearms, it will make your head spin.
Some are common sence, others are learned, but you must have a good education to learn about the safety aspects otherwise you will get sued for whatever little money that you have earned as a smith.
Take it from someone who has been there, worked his butt off, been somewhat sucessful, don't be a smith. Fix firearms of your own for fun on the side and find a real business that pays enough for you to buy all the firearms you want.
Gunsmiths don't make enough money to buy or make a lot of fine firearms.
True you can buy and trade. But you must be honest. A little old man came in my shop with a pistol and wanted $200.00 for it. You could tell he had nothing and really needed the money. I knew the pistol was rare and worth thousands. I took the gun to an apraiser I knew. It was worth thousands.
I found a collector who bought it. I could have pocketed a lot of money. You must be honest. That little old man was one happy person. Nice old guy. It gave him enough money to have a little hope.
If you become a smith be honest. You deserve to make a profit, but not rip people off.
You have to know what guns to refinish and which to leave alone. Nothing is worse than a smith who either doesn't know or just wants to make money so he re finishes a rare, old piece of history. A firearm where there are few left.
Do good work for a fair price and be honest and you will make a enough to live on after a little while. Get really good and you might make a little more.
Be one of the few who is a really good business man who gets a large operation going and runs it smart and maybe you'll make a very good living. You will notice there are few of those people around.
Do bad work or lie to customers and you will be out of business within a few months.

Best Regards, John K
 
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I know this thread started five years ago and I apologize to everyone for bumping it. However I found this thread through a Google search and I had to reply to Dfariswheel due to the nature of his comments.

Dfariswheel said:
Military armorers are NOT gunsmith's.
For the most part, they're parts switchers. They remove defective parts and drop in new parts.
If a gun needs more involved repairs, they're sent to a higher level to the REAL gunsmiths.
True military gunsmith's have a much higher level of training, and are almost always career military personnel. Getting into this level isn't easy.
At the very top are the true gunsmiths working for military marksmanship or special operations units.
There are very few of these people and they're the absolute cream of the crop with many years of training and experience.
Click to expand...

Just as Gunplummer said, I doubt that you've had much contact with enough military armorers to make any such judgment. It's certain that, like any other job, some are better at it and more experienced than others. But what's not true is that they're just the mindless drones you paint them to be. When it comes down to it, 90% of what most people call "gunsmithing" is just what you said: switching parts. This is as true in the civilian world as it is in the military.

I was a 45B. I've worked on guns in Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany, Japan and darn near every large Army post in the United States, including Hawaii. I've worked on stuff for the 5th and 10th SFG, the Rangers and heck, even the frickin' Idaho National Guard once. I've even helped guys repair M198s and an M68 on an M1 Abrams, despite not knowing what I was doing. I helped a guy with an M61 Vulcan once too, now that I'm thinking about it. Basically, if anybody needed their rigs worked on, I never said no because we're all on the same team and our weapons are obviously mission critical.

Then when I was done doing all that, I worked for the Small Arms Readiness Evaluation Team (SARET) with TACOM on the Rock Island Arsenal, and I did it all over again. You might recognize TACOM-SARET from the famous M14 EBR we built there...There are three pictures of them in the latest Leupold tactical catalog, and to say I was proud to see them there is an understatement.

In my time as a dumb "parts switcher," I have repaired, modified and built from scratch, the following: the M9, M11 and M1911 pistols, the M4 and M16 assault carbine and rifle, the M590, M870 and M1014 shotguns, M24 sniper rifle, M110 and SR-25 sniper rifles, the M14 and all it's variants, the M82 anti-material rifle, M249, M60, M240, and M2 machine guns, M203 40mm grenade launcher, MK19 40mm automatic grenade launcher, the M224, M252 and M120 mortar systems, and I've even repaired AK-47s, RPKs, RPDs, and whatnot for the SF and foreign military and police forces.

Now I know I was just a knuckle dragging "parts switcher" who is no doubt barely capable of typing, but if you can't read military-speak, allow me to translate some of that into civilian-speak for you: I've worked on more Beretta 92s, Sig P226s, 1911s, AR-15s, Mossberg 500s, Remington 870s, Benelli M4s, Remington 700s, AR-10s, M1As, and Barrett .50s than probably any 20 civilian gunsmiths have in their lives, combined...Not to mention I know inside and out a bunch of hardware that most people just get to dream about and play with on their X-Box. But looking at this list, it kinda sorta looks like maybe I know about a whole lot of some of the most common guns in America...Like, maybe, some of the same stuff civilian gunsmiths work on, eh?

Let's not forget all the M68 CCOs, AN/PVQ-31s, M145s, Leupold Mk4s, suppressors, lights, lasers, rails, grips, BUISs, coffee machines and doo-hickeys and dingle-bobs I had to deal with too.

Maybe I'm not a master machinist, but I've spent lots of time at a lathe, mill, drill press, bench grinder and polishing wheel. I'll grant you I spent more time on the latter three than the former two, but I bet I've dealt with problems most civilian gunsmiths can't fathom. I've fixed broken M2s in the middle of combat while the gun was taking rounds (and they weren't shooting at the gun, you know). I've removed someone's hand from a Mk19 spade grip, after crawling through a huge pool of blood. I wonder just how many civilian gunsmiths see much combat while they work in Nebraska, other than what they watch on TV. But yeah, I guess I switched some parts here and there too.

I've removed bad parts and replaced them with good ones. I've threaded barrels and chased existing threads. I've mounted suppressors and brakes, smoothed what was rough, tightened what was loose and loosened what was tight. I've refinished and painted parts and entire guns. I've put on and sighted in scopes. I've lapped lugs, scope rings, and trued actions. I've fixed magazines, and I've cleaned, lubed and test fired guns. I've fabricated from scratch or modified existing parts to better get a job done. I've built guns from the receiver up and torn them apart down to the receiver. I've done just about anything to a gun you can do, and even a few things you can't.

So what exactly is it a civilian gunsmith does that's any different? Seems to me what this silly, drooling ol' "parts switcher" did is pretty much exactly what a civilian gunsmith spends most of his time doing. Hmmm...

Don't mean to sound like I've got sand in my mangina, and like I said I know this thread is old, but Dfariswheel, you might be the best civilian gunsmith in America, but when it comes to what gun guys are doing in the military, I think you ought to know what you're talking about before you talk about it. Military armorers do the same things civilian gunsmiths do, just with different focuses on different things for different purposes. Yeah, a civilian gunsmith might spend more time on a mill, but a military gunsmith spends more time on something else...And these days, they're doing it in far more difficult situations than your average civilian gunsmith. Unless they live in New Jersey maybe.
 
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Recoil1776:

I've been active duty for the past ten years as a trigger puller, and have at least another ten in front of me, and I have to ask you this:

How long were you in before you were the guy doing the machine work? That comment was directed at armorers, not the higher echelon guys. Before I moved to an instructing billet (I am in the Corps, not the Army before you ask) my issued sidearm was a hand built 1911. I know that this was built by "armorers" (as their MOS states) in Quantico who could more accurately be described as gunsmiths. However, when I go to the armory to check it out, the throng of LCpl and PFC ARMORERS who may be able to check for barrel straightness and possibly head space and timing on a few different weapons systems are the ones who pull it out of the rack and hand it to me. Please, we all know the difference, I do not believe any offense was intended. I do commend you for your work, though I have only dealt with the Corps hand built weapons, I have no doubt you produced some amazing equipment.
 
If you're serious about being a gunsmith, write the University of Colorado in Tinidad, Colorado. This is an excellent school. I'll bet their available on the internet.
 
I'm middle aged, I have a job I don't like that gives me no satisfaction, and that offers me no free time to pursue hobbies or spent quality time with friends or family.

A few months ago I started seriously considering a mid-life career change to gunsmithing.

After doing a lot of research, I determined that it would take a minimum investment of $20,000 and at least a year of full time study/practice.

At 45 years old and with a wife & a mortgage to support, I just don't see this as a possability.

I wish you luck in your endevor. For me, this will be just another dream that died.
 
another bump - Since the economy and state of this once great Country has taken some drastic turns since the last post thought it would be interesting to see if some of the original posters are still around and what their views are now concerning gunsmithing, especially since I want to get into it.

I own a small business now and its very successful but I want to do something I enjoy. Someone earlier mentioned that being happy is more important than having money, I agree and now I'm looking into gunsmith schools (the one in PA is looking good so far).
 
With all due respect to military weapons folk, Most of it is function.

A Purdy is form and function.

I'm a machinist, worked in a custom pistol shop, and respect both.

A missed file stroke on a century old mint Colt SAA is different than the same miss on a fighting weapon.

And the S&W 500 isn't the first 50 they have looked at. ;-))
 
PA School of Gunsmithing in Pittsburgh PA....

The 2 top gunsmithing trade schools/programs Im aware of are in CO & in metro Pittsburgh PA. The PA training program is called the PA School of Gunsmithing. I think. ;)

The other class in CO(near Denver I think) is also considered worth the $$$ or time. Bill Lauthridge, of www.Cylinder-slide.com offers professional level skill training & classes.

For handguns & pistolsmithing, I'd consider the www.AmericanPistol.com site. The members or guild may guide you in finding the best course or school.

If I recall; the former gunsmith/shop exec: Vince from Discovery's popular Sons of Guns unscripted show said he went to the PA gunsmithing program in Pittsburgh.
I lived in Pittsburgh from 1995-2000 & considered using my GI Bill $ to become a professional gunsmith(pistolsmith).

ClydeFrog
 
Some comments

Military armorers vary in skill, depending on their level. Some are parts swappers. Others are fully trained in some areas of gunsmithing (note: gunsmithing tends to become specialized nowadays and there are some guys who do nothing but build rifles, others who work on particular handguns, some who do nothing but shotguns, repair specialists, engravers, blackpowder rifle builders, etc.). I know one gunsmith graduate who enlisted into the Army and was promised a billet in the Army's Marksmanship Team as one of its armorer. He had to attend boot camp first.

Schools are a good place to start and their graduates vary in the level of skill and knowledge. As to which is best, that depends on the skill and adeptness of the individual student too. Some students are just better than others (therefore the worst graduate from the best school may not be equal to the best graduate from the worst school).

Gunsmithing school graduates are probably best off seeking employment from others. First, no one really graduates as a "master gunsmith" and are really only journeymen upon graduation. Second, by working for others, they don't have to start from scratch including developing a business plan, getting a loan, develop a marketing plan, developing a client base, etc. Instead, when they work for others, they trade their labor for money. So, while they work for someone else, they can accumulate experience in the field and build up capital for their own enterprise. BTW, there is no shame in not having your own business. Some folks just aren't businessmen and there are plenty of good gunsmiths who work for others.
 
Gunsmith Training.

You can do a correspondence program, but you really need to do an apprenticeship after it, as hands-on experience counts for an awful lot. They never mention this on the ads about these schools. Believe me, I went this route over 30 years ago, but apprenticed under a gunsmith who knew his stuff.

Next, not all courses are the same, and some would teach you some mighty unsafe things, as I have looked over a few available now.

If I were to recommend two, the first would be Modern Gun School, who actually makes you do some bench work for a grade. Next, would be Penn Foster, who is the same as the old North American Gunsmithing School, in Scranton, PA.

The rest, sorry, but I wouldn't recommend them.

Now, if you have the time to go to a professional brick and mortar school, then you can look into Yavapai College, Piedmont Technical College, Piedmont Community College, Murray State College, and Trinidad State Junior College. I also know there's one in Pittsburgh, but I heard they taught that it was all right to color shotgun frames with a torch, instead of properly case hardening them, so I reserve my judgment on them.

If you go to a brick and mortar school, then you can probably find a job right out of school, but with the above correspondence courses, you'll need to have work experience with them.

If you start your own business, you'll soon find just how expensive this work is, and that nobody will want to pay you what you're worth. You will find out just how high business overhead is, and when you charge for it, customers will balk.

These TV shows on the Discovery channel are not showing the many customers who take their gun, and walk out, and its not all glory either.

My last piece of advice is to learn to run a lathe, and a milling machine. You would do better to have a 36" lathe, and a small mill to make parts and tooling with. If you want to do refinishing, I advise you to learn how to make the finish match the factories, or else, you wont be doing it very long.
 
One good start would be to search this and other gun sites for "gunsmith" and "gunsmithing" and read all the information already posted. Most of it is excellent and with different viewpoints from beginners to skilled craftsmen.

Jim
 
I ought to mention American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI), too, as they do offer a video course, which is conducted mainly by Bob Dunlap. I have watched, pretty much, the entire course. They cover things that a correspondence course does not cover, or cover well, and I didn't care for the hot caustic bluing video. They use a different system to Brownell's Oxynate 7.

What they do show, that is good is:

Making springs
Heat treating and case hardening (a must)
Assembly/disassembly/operation using cut away guns
Hot water bluing
Sear systems (a must)
Rebarreling/chambering/headspace (another must)
Bedding a stock (by Darrel Holland)
Plus, they have a machine shop and welding course video.

If you can find this as a used course, it will be very much cheaper, but you will not be able to take the exams, nor get a diploma that way. However, it would be good to compliment a correspondence course with.
 
I ought to mention American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI), too, as they do offer a video course, which is conducted mainly by Bob Dunlap. I have watched, pretty much, the entire course. They cover things that a correspondence course does not cover, or cover well, and I didn't care for the hot caustic bluing video. They use a different system to Brownell's Oxynate 7.

What they do show, that is good is:

Making springs
Heat treating and case hardening (a must)
Assembly/disassembly/operation using cut away guns
Hot water bluing
Sear systems (a must)
Rebarreling/chambering/headspace (another must)
Bedding a stock (by Darrel Holland)
Plus, they have a machine shop and welding course video.

If you can find this as a used course, it will be very much cheaper, but you will not be able to take the exams, nor get a diploma that way. However, it would be good to compliment a correspondence course with.
Click to expand...

I'll keep my eyes open for these tapes but I would never try to pass myself off as a gunsmith without serious hands-on experience from a school. The tapes will give me a much better understanding of whats going on before I get into school
 
Retired and just because

This has been something I have planned on doing for a few years when I retired. I am now 57 and have retired. I have about $150,000 to put into this business/hobby to start off. What do I need to get first (other than a complete training). I would like to become really proficient on 1911s and accurizing both 1911s and rifles. Any ideas?
 
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