I want a old military style rifle in .308. Any suggestions?
- Thread starter Pops1085
- Start date
There is always a MAS-36 converted to .308 by Century Arms. While I personally wouldn't own one...I've read reviews of them being spotty due to a rushed conversion process, though I've never heard of any case that could be seen as dangerous. It would appear many have no issues at all and are fun shooters, while other have been found to be problematic. I guess they come and go in batches.
.303 Enfields are known for having generous chamers, and generally should be neck sized when reloading if you want to get decent case life. I wonder if the .308 ones are similar.
Not sure how you would do that with a .308, the .303 headspaces on the rim, so you can have a massive chamber and still pass a headspace check.
Also, Enfield magazines tend to be picky, and need to be tweaked for the specific rifle they are in. I suspect this also applies ti Ishapore .308s.
A quick Google search turns up instructions, this one is as good as any:
http://towhichireplied.blogspot.com/2009/06/enfield-magazine-feed-lips.html
Not sure how you would do that with a .308, the .303 headspaces on the rim, so you can have a massive chamber and still pass a headspace check.
Also, Enfield magazines tend to be picky, and need to be tweaked for the specific rifle they are in. I suspect this also applies ti Ishapore .308s.
A quick Google search turns up instructions, this one is as good as any:
http://towhichireplied.blogspot.com/2009/06/enfield-magazine-feed-lips.html
Yup I agree but most all milsurps have generous chambers to handle the conditions they were expected to perform in,,, sand,, grit, ect.
As with all brass after first "fire forming" to set chamber specs on brass ( as good as it can be ,I guess
) I neck size only and get decent case life out of all my oldies .As to head space I only worry about that if pressure signs are present when shooting mild reloads .
my rifles don't get fed max loads anyway.
tahunua001
New member
there is nothing picky about enfield mags. either a person stacks stripper clips wrong which causes rimlock and is not the fault of the magazine or people try to use magazine for the wrong type of enfield in the wrong gun or they just buy a crappy aftermarket mag, none of which is the enfield's fault.
as for that Ishapore 308s use a completely different mag design and considering that 308 is not a rimmed cartridge like 303 there are less problems to overcome.
as for ishapore jungle carbines, there are none. all ishapores in 308 are modeled after the number 1 enfield, any jungle carbine in 308 is a bubba'd conversion kit. either they used a number one and tried to make it a nujmber 5 which is very difficult due to the number of differences or they took a number 5 and converted it to 308 themselves. either way, such a rifle never existed from the factory in that configuration that I'm aware of, I'm sure wogpotter will be along soon enough to tell me that I'm completely wrong but for the time being, that's my knowledge on the matter.
as for that Ishapore 308s use a completely different mag design and considering that 308 is not a rimmed cartridge like 303 there are less problems to overcome.
as for ishapore jungle carbines, there are none. all ishapores in 308 are modeled after the number 1 enfield, any jungle carbine in 308 is a bubba'd conversion kit. either they used a number one and tried to make it a nujmber 5 which is very difficult due to the number of differences or they took a number 5 and converted it to 308 themselves. either way, such a rifle never existed from the factory in that configuration that I'm aware of, I'm sure wogpotter will be along soon enough to tell me that I'm completely wrong but for the time being, that's my knowledge on the matter.
The issue with mine was the mag. The tab on the back of the mag that the mag release locked into, was just a tad off, and the rounds sat a skosh to low, and the bolt would not pick the round up as it went forward. If you held up on the bottom of the mag as you cycled the bolt, it wasnt a problem. I always just assumed that since it was a product of "India", that the issue rested there. Most of the rest of the gun was pretty rough as well.
The aftermarket mag was actually much better quality all around, and solved most of the "feeding" (into the chamber) problems. Im still not convinced that a rifle designed for a rimmed cartridge, was the best choice for a rimless case conversion. I think thats why ejection was such a problem with mine.
A .308 "Jungle Carbine" was probably a Gibbs conversion:
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/historical_remakes.html
Although it could have been done by pretty much anyone, Numrich used to sell the parts.
And Enfield mags certainly can be picky, mine was, and it is an original mag. When I was troubleshooting feed issues, I found a bunch oh articles on tuning them. The issue is normally the lips in the front can get bent, and cause feed problems. Here is another set of instructions on tweaking the lips to get them to feed right: http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=78093
Again, not sure if the Ishapore magazines had the same issues, but certainly possible.
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/historical_remakes.html
Although it could have been done by pretty much anyone, Numrich used to sell the parts.
And Enfield mags certainly can be picky, mine was, and it is an original mag. When I was troubleshooting feed issues, I found a bunch oh articles on tuning them. The issue is normally the lips in the front can get bent, and cause feed problems. Here is another set of instructions on tweaking the lips to get them to feed right: http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=78093
Again, not sure if the Ishapore magazines had the same issues, but certainly possible.
Ignition Override
New member
adrians and maybe two others beat me to the recommendation.
The first gun which came to mind is the FR8, of which I have two: both have matching bolts.
With the large-ring Mauser actions being designed for the original 8mm Mauser, even modern commercial .308 can be safe with good headspace and preferably reloading with minimum powder charges.
The first gun which came to mind is the FR8, of which I have two: both have matching bolts.
With the large-ring Mauser actions being designed for the original 8mm Mauser, even modern commercial .308 can be safe with good headspace and preferably reloading with minimum powder charges.
Ozzie,
Nice rifle. Mine looked something like that, but yours is definitely a lot nicer.
Your stock is a lot nice than mine was. Mine had a steel butt plate instead of brass. Your metal doesnt look like its got the bad, heavy black paint job mine had. It looked like it was laid on thick and heavy with a brush, and was chipped, bubbled and peeling in places.
Your magazine looks like the aftermarket one I bought. The original on mine was also coated in black paint, and pretty beat up.
As I said earlier, mine was accurate, and no complaints there. I never found the recoil to be bad, or any worse than anything else similar. Then again, I always prefered the military cut stocks with the steel butt plates over most anything else.
Nice rifle. Mine looked something like that, but yours is definitely a lot nicer.
Your stock is a lot nice than mine was. Mine had a steel butt plate instead of brass. Your metal doesnt look like its got the bad, heavy black paint job mine had. It looked like it was laid on thick and heavy with a brush, and was chipped, bubbled and peeling in places.
Your magazine looks like the aftermarket one I bought. The original on mine was also coated in black paint, and pretty beat up.
As I said earlier, mine was accurate, and no complaints there. I never found the recoil to be bad, or any worse than anything else similar. Then again, I always prefered the military cut stocks with the steel butt plates over most anything else.
AK103K, I don't think Ozzieman's or maybe your mag are/were aftermarket mags ,ozzie's looks just like the issued one on my 2A1.
BTW I took mine out to shoot today and discovered my mag won't feed flat nosed cast bullets very well ( mold was 311407. ),the gun loved the bullet but I had to single load it, no biggie.
Shoots those "pointy" things great
BTW I took mine out to shoot today and discovered my mag won't feed flat nosed cast bullets very well ( mold was 311407. ),the gun loved the bullet but I had to single load it, no biggie.
Shoots those "pointy" things great
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http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518337&highlight=308
I don’t know how to tell an aftermarket VS original.
The bottom floor plate has been painted and badly but the rest of the mag is an original finish.
The only marking is what appears to be a serial number R1406 on the rear locking key on the back.
Also a couple of what could be proof marks are on the floor plate TC24.
There is a photo of what I load for mine in the above forum
It's a Missouri 172 GR with a gas check. Works well in my magazine
I don’t know how to tell an aftermarket VS original.
The bottom floor plate has been painted and badly but the rest of the mag is an original finish.
The only marking is what appears to be a serial number R1406 on the rear locking key on the back.
Also a couple of what could be proof marks are on the floor plate TC24.
There is a photo of what I load for mine in the above forum
It's a Missouri 172 GR with a gas check. Works well in my magazine
That Missouri 172 looks a lot like my noe 316299 ( 200+ gn) sized to.311.
the 311407 is the left one that shoots great if loaded on it's lonesome,,
The noe needs to be set deep to allow for easy chambering in the 7.62 but it was purchased specifically for my 303's in which it excels..
the 311407 is the left one that shoots great if loaded on it's lonesome,,
The noe needs to be set deep to allow for easy chambering in the 7.62 but it was purchased specifically for my 303's in which it excels..
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IMO if you want something that was factory issue, you're looking at either a No.4 set up for 7.62 NATO, or one of the Ishapores, which AFAIK is a No.1 MkIII of Indian manufacture, but with the construction and metallurgy updated to handle the higher pressures. (IIRC they tried mass conversion of the SMLE, but enough of the rifles couldn't take it that they abandoned the idea; OTOH the No.4 was tough enough from the start.)
I have seen a No.5 (true Jungle Carbine action) that was converted to .223 Rem, but its owner never pretended that it was anything other than a job done to his personal spec.
I have seen a No.5 (true Jungle Carbine action) that was converted to .223 Rem, but its owner never pretended that it was anything other than a job done to his personal spec.
Ignition Override
New member
Keep in mind that the Spanish FR7 and FR8 look like brothers, but the 7 is derived from the late 1890s small-ring 7x57mm, while the FR8 has the action of the Large-ring 8mm Mauser. There is quite a difference there, not just regarding 20th Century advances in steel production.
The 7mm action's weakness in its conversions to Nato 7.62 (borderline strength?) is one reason why the Spanish reduced the power in the Spanish Nato ammo.
Another reason reportedly was to reduce recoil or muzzle rise in the G-3 (Cetme) military rifles.
The 7mm action's weakness in its conversions to Nato 7.62 (borderline strength?) is one reason why the Spanish reduced the power in the Spanish Nato ammo.
Another reason reportedly was to reduce recoil or muzzle rise in the G-3 (Cetme) military rifles.
I believe the FR8 was made using the Spanish Mod 43 large ring mauser as it's parent
Why the eye roll, when you are saying the same thing Ignition Override is, and the same thing I said way back in post 13?
A Spanish M43 is a Large Ring Mauser 98 action.
There is a pretty good overview of Spanish Mausers here:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/spanishinquisition/
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