I wanna speed up production . . .

"...expand the case..." That should be done before you put powder in. Anyway, what you're describing is a turret press. However, you need to decide on a budget just like for everything else. Mind you, speed with a single stage is about technique and doing one step to all your cases to the point all they need is powder and bullet. A good powder thrower can be used in conjunction with loading blocks and you can load 50 round or more in very little time. And as a retired guy, you'll have lots and lots of time.
"...happy retirement..." Isn't all it's cracked up to be.
 
I don't see any need for anything intermediate between a single stage and a progressive. You can twirl the turret like Frankenmauser (or use the cheap Lee self rotating turret), and save a bit of time, but not enough to matter to me.

I load bulk pistol ammo on progressives, target rifle ammo on single stage with batch processing of each step. I don't shoot bulk rifle ammo so I don't have a rifle setup for my D550.
 
I don't see any need for anything intermediate between a single stage and a progressive. You can twirl the turret like Frankenmauser (or use the cheap Lee self rotating turret), and save a bit of time, but not enough to matter to me.
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The beauty of a real turret press (Lee doesn't count), is that you can have five, six, or seven single-stage presses set up at the same time, while only taking up the bench space of a single press. Actual loading process efficiency can be completely ignored, and that's still a very nice benefit.
 
Does that mean that it has just been an illusion that I can crank out more rounds with my Dillon 550b than my RCBS jr. all these years? I feel like such a fool.
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It depends on how you set up the "race".

If you had a race to load say 20 rounds of X, 20 rounds of Y and 20 rounds of Z. It is possible for a single stage to leave a progressive in the dust.

Some of them, like the co-ax you can change from one caliber to another as fast as you can pick up a die.

Like the last 30 seconds of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3AGbx5YVZk

Converting from 38 to 44 to 7-08 in under 30 seconds.

However, if you said "get everything ready and just tell me when to start the clock on 100 rounds." You could load 100 on a progressive, stop and have lunch, then go shoot them before the guy using a single stage would be done.

As they are much faster to load with, like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl63cR9Y_Y0
 
FrankenMauser said:
The beauty of a real turret press (Lee doesn't count), is that you can have five, six, or seven single-stage presses set up at the same time, while only taking up the bench space of a single press. Actual loading process efficiency can be completely ignored, and that's still a very nice benefit.
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I'd rather have one progressive press over a turret or seven single stage presses. Switching dies on a LNL takes under 5 minutes and that is if you are changing out primer tubes. Switching out the shell plate and all the dies takes about 2 minutes. I could easily do 20 rounds of 3 different calibers in half the time of a single stage.
 
After many years I finally bought a Dillon RL550B. Best move I ever made. I kept my Lyman turret press for rifle and Misc. pistol loads. I use the 550 for .45, 9 mm and .38. I recently bought 2 more powder measures so I'm good to go. If you are a blaster with an AR you can even load 5.56 on it. The 550 costs a little more than a Lee but I think it's worth it. I clean the fired brass then load it. I don't find it necessary to clean the primer pockets on pistol brass. The main reason I held off so long was I feared changing calibers would be a major problem, it isn't. Go for it, I know others who are happy with a different Dillon or a Hornady. I don't know anyone who is really pleased with a Lee. The primer feed seems to be a problem with the Lee but I haven't used a Lee so this is second hand info.
 
"You can have 5, 6, 7 single stage presses all set up at once"

That's the problem with actual turrets, they were all made WAY too big!
Huge disk with die holes around the outside, 4" to 6" away from any support (center pin in the turret),
So the turret deflects away from the ram, forcing the ram to bend or the case to bend into the die...

Never owned a turret that didn't deflect unacceptably, that includes both an older Hollywood & a Texas.
Don't have either anymore, someone wanted the bragging rights WAY more than I wanted an inaccurate 'Do All' press...
I use presses that hold the dies squarely & securely over the ram, mostly so the only thing I have to deal with is frame stretch, which isn't much with the Lee 'Turret' or the Dillon 650 or 1050, and either will crank out 100 or more rounds before you get primers or powder in 20 cases to go one at a time in your 'REAL TURRET PRESS'....

There is a reason there are only one or two actual, 'Turret' presses being made, the design has outlived it's usefulness..
The Lee is 1/50 the price of those old dinosaurs, and more accurate even with the skinny ram & I'll fitting toolhead!

If you really want to figure it out, go back to J. Morris's last post, compare apples to apples!
A Dillon 650 without bullet feeder, a guy might make 100 rounds TOO MANY while the guy with a Lee Turret or actual turret press guy was trying to prime & powder 20 cases!

The propaganda says 600 rifle rounds an hour, some guy on YouTube did just over 1,100 in one hour in one take. (case feeder, no bullet feeder)
I easily do .223 at 350-400 an hour, but I'm slow and picky about the way the bullet starts into the case.
The 1050 w/auto drive, loading .223, spits out 900/hr while I drink coffee and watch cartoons... With nearly zero defects, maybe 1/500, but I'm picky...

The slowest part of loading with a Dillon is loading primer tubes,
Partly solved by using a vibratory tube loader ($25 aftermarket) and a tube extender that holds 200 instead of Dillons 100 round tubes.
Takes about 30 seconds to load 100 primers, getting the primers in the vibratory gadget takes 10 seconds, vibrating 100 primers into the tube takes 15-20 seconds.

I can't believe that anyone would bring up any older machine that didn't auto prime from a magazine when talking about speed!
Priming cases by hand is one of the slowest parts of reloading, moving the case into position, loading the primer into position, compressing the primer into the case, removing the case... And starting over is seriously time consuming!
And anyone that says they never miss with those little primers is lying!
Then there is the added issues of handling the primers with your fingers, elminating that possible source of contamination is worth the price of admission alone!

With a Dillon SDB being at or under $400 ready to rock, there is no way I'd consider any kind of manual press for short cases!
Rifle will run you about $100 more, but it will do virtually everything common,
And a 650 with case feeder kicks butt, but runs about $800 with case feeder and reasonable dies...
AND! It's a Dillon with a lifetime warranty, will hold at least 75% of it's value!
 
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Prof Young said:
Loaders:

I've been reloading with a single stage press for many years. Retired now, shooing a lot more, so it's time to speed up production.

I'm guessing I need some kind of turret press, or multiple stage press. I don't want the most fancy most expensive.

I'd like it to take a primed case that has power already in it, expand the case, seat the bullet and crimp it without having to remove the case from the press. I'm happy to place the bullet in the case by hand.

I'm starting my research . . .

Please talk to me.

Life is good.
Prof Young
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Lee Classic Turret is the perfect inexpensive step up from a single stage press.
 
"You can have 5, 6, 7 single stage presses all set up at once"

That's the problem with actual turrets, they were all made WAY too big!
Huge disk with die holes around the outside, 4" to 6" away from any support (center pin in the turret),
So the turret deflects away from the ram, forcing the ram to bend or the case to bend into the die...

Never owned a turret that didn't deflect unacceptably, that includes both an older Hollywood & a Texas.
Don't have either anymore, someone wanted the bragging rights WAY more than I wanted an inaccurate 'Do All' press...
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You bring this up in every thread discussing turret presses. Yet, you have never provided any supporting arguments or data.
Did you actually measure the claimed deflection?
I have.
While swaging bullets - about the worst thing you can do to a press, short of crushing rocks - I had less than 0.002" deflection on the T-7.
Most presses are already several multiples of that out of alignment, aside from deflection and common misalignment of the rams.

And if you're going to get into deflection of a turret press, you may as well start a new thread and go on talking about frame spring, stretch, and deflection under load in every other type of press, too. About eight months ago, I measured a single-stage press while sizing .307 Win brass that had been loaded to 68,000 psi and stretched substantially when fired in a Marlin 336. The aluminum frame was stretching over 0.035" and deflecting several degrees!

That's not the only way you can be out, either. The last time I had it apart (about 6,500 rounds before selling), my 550B had enough wear in the frame that the ram was deflecting 0.009" toward the front of the press when under load.


If you don't like turret presses, then don't use them. But if you're going to claim, semi-scientifically, that they're crap for whatever reason, then support the claim.
 
OK, that's easy.

Mount press on a table that can not deflect, in my case that's a 3" thick hardened steel inspection table ground to less than 0.0001" across it's surface in any direction.

Mount dial indicator 'Run Out' gauge to table contacting press turret at the die.

Watch turret deflect to the limit of the run out gauge, in this case, 0.010"

Switch to common dial indicator, watch the press deflect 0.090" at the die.

Tighten up, rebush turret stem, hone bushing to fit the turret pin, less than 0.001" clearance between bushing stem shaft.
Heat from holding the pin in your hand would cause an interference fit.
Can't get any tighter than that without risking lockup when temprature changes.

Watch a .308 case resize deflect turret 0.060" at the die.
With virtually zero slop between pin & turret, I'm surprised the cast turret material didn't crack, but cast iron is relatively soft and flexible... Especially the cheap stuff.

Actively seeking to sell deflecting press to people that had made offers on it previously.

Check Lee Classic press the same way,
After tool head slop is taken up, zero dial indicator, resize .308 brass.
Press frame stretch just under 0.003" measured at the die. Acceptable.

Check RCBS Rock Chucker, nodular iron frame, the same way, frame stretch just under 0.001" at the die. Nodular iron rocks!

There is a reason those old iron frame Rock Chucker have been used by bench rifle shooters since the beginning of time, and are still used.
That's the reason I still have mine!

Dillon 650 cast aluminum frame stretched about 0.003". Acceptable.
There is a LONG frame, and it is China cast aluminum...

Dillon 1050 gray iron frame stretched virtually nothing, the needle on the run out gauge doesn't twitch enough for a reading, but that's to be expected since the dies come down on the frame...
Ram deflection is hard to measure since the ram goes DOWN, so you have to measure die/tool head movement off center & extrapolate...
At worst about 0.0002", which is probably clearance in the ram to frame.

I use Starrett dial indicators & run out gauges, which I've shown in pictures I've posted on here before,
And I use Starrett standards to check calibration.
Since I own a machine shop, inspection tables & highest quality measuring tools are kind of a requirement.

Why would you measure ram deflection that has the ram centered under a stationary die like the Lee has? Seems to be wasted effort...
Bow in the ram might be a pressure issue, but deflection doesn't mean anything when the case can move around a few thousands in the shell holder to center in the fixed die.

I'm wondering why you would try to measure ram deflection on a small Dillon?
With a small offset from center, fixed dies that can't move, and a brass in a shell plate that let's it move under center of that fixed die, it seems pointless.

Maybe you intended to say ram side movement, clearance between ram & bore?
That movement is negated since the brass can move several thousands to center in the die itself, the die being solidly mounted in the tool head.

On an actual turret press it was the turret deflecting, cocking that die at an angle.
No amount of movement by the brass is going to compensate for the brass getting ground into one side of the die, then having to scrap up into that die at an angle.
Brass aren't curved when they go in, but enough deflection and they will be when they come out!

No wonder all the old timers that used the turret presses were obsessed with neck concentricity! It was a full time job trying to take the bend out of the cases between body & neck the angled die put into them!
(Didn't think about that, did ya'?!)

Anyway, back to the point you tried to make...
There isn't a progressive out there that won't do 100 to every 1 you can get done on that antique 'Real Turret'!!!

The only way to call a turret 'Fast' is to compare it to continental drift!
 
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Thank you for at least attempting.
Watch a .308 case resize deflect turret 0.060" at the die.
With virtually zero slop between pin & turret, I'm surprised the cast turret material didn't crack, but cast iron is relatively soft and flexible... Especially the cheap stuff.
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Nope.
:rolleyes:
Using balsa wood?
No properly adjusted steel, iron, or aluminum turret press of normal design is going to deflect 60 thou. Taking up slop? Maybe. Improperly adjusted? Sure. In-spec and used as advertised... Not a chance.


I'm wondering why you would try to measure ram deflection on a small Dillon?
With a small offset from center, fixed dies that can't move, and a brass in a shell plate that let's it move under center of that fixed die, it seems pointless.

Maybe you intended to say ram side movement, clearance between ram & bore?
That movement is negated since the brass can move several thousands to center in the die itself, the die being solidly mounted in the tool head.
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Nope.
Apply force to press handle as cases enter dies. Ram shifts in bore and deflects toward front of press.
Not difficult to understand.

Why measure it? Because too many cases (pistol or rifle) were clipping die mouths and I wanted to know why.

Anyway, back to the point you tried to make...
There isn't a progressive out there that won't do 100 to every 1 you can get done on that antique 'Real Turret'!
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Not at all the point I was trying to make.
I said absolutely nothing about speed -- especially in trying to argue that a turret press is faster than a progressive. That would be ridiculous, particularly when considering that I included a Dillon 550B in my posts... :rolleyes:
 
Did the OP use Search to find the hundreds of similar threads?
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If anyone did that , there wouldn't be anything to post here.


On the deflection side of things, to load decent ammunition it doesn't matter if a press has .090" of deflection as long as it always has .090". Kind of like it is more important that your powder measure be repeatable than accurate.
 
Lee N. Field got it right. The Lee Classic Turret fits your needs as stated. It's simple, rugged, economical, and produces great ammo. I have the economy version and load .357 mag, .41 mag, 7.62x39, and .223 ammo on it with very good results. The .223 ammo is just sub MOA in my AR15, and the 7.62x39 is just over MOA in my AR47. So for me and my uses this more than good enough quality ammo. Additional turrets are very economical as well so adding calibers is not only cost effective, but only takes a minute when changing on the press. I'm eventually going to add the Classic and sell the economy version since I can the use the Safety prime and won't have to prime off the press.
 
I have had excellent results with a Lee Classic Turret press. Its simply, reliable, turns out great quality ammo at a decent rate.
I regularly get 180-200 rounds of pistol ammo per hour which is more than fast enough for my needs. Caliber changes are quick, and each turret head keeps it settings without any adjustments needed.
 
LOL
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Yeah but it's not a joke.

Do a search using "turret or progressive", you will get 38 PAGES of results, 937 different threads asking the same question. Nothing said here that couldn't be found in them.

The first one being started in July 1999.. That's 18 years ago multiply that by 52 weeks in a year and you get 936 weeks. So we have had the same conversation every week for the last 18 years.
 
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Bought a 550B in '93 to load for mine and my sons' USPSA guns. Just went back and checked, counted 11 caliber conversion kits with five powder measures. A Rockchucker, a Lee Breechlock, and one of their hand-held ones, too. 28 different calibers at last count. I use the Dillon more than all the others combined, including the MECs for 12 and 20 ga. You will not be sorry for buying a Dillon anything.
 
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