I think I'm interested in a bolt action .22.

K

Klein Helmer

New member
I made a thread recently as I am looking for my first rifle, and a popular suggestion was I start with a .22. I did some research and I became increasingly interested with the idea, so I am hoping I can get some more information.

First of all, what's up with the .17 ammo (I know there are multiple variations)? Is this something I should be looking into, or do I want the .22? What are some of the significant differences here?

Additionally, could someone break down for me the differences between the .22, .22LR, and .22 mag? Are these largely interchangeable when it comes to rifles, or will they require different platforms?

Is bolt action what I'm looking for? I am looking for essentially a practice rifle (as it pertains to both shooting and maintenance) that is as accurate as possible. It seems that the bolt action (in general) is regarded as more accurate than semi auto, pump, or lever action. It looked to me like the bolt action rifles were the ones people were competing with. Is my assessment here accurate?

What is a 10/22? I have seen this come up a few times and I don't what the designation means.

After looking around for a while, I think I like the CZ 455 varmint due to its seemingly great reputation, and thick barrel.

What do you all think of this choice? If I am looking for accuracy, reliability, and the beefiest possible construction, is this the one for me? Are there any other similar models you could recommend?

I have looked at some of the Anschutz models, but I'm not sure I want to take that plunge just yet, particularly for a .22.

I realize I may not even be asking the right questions, so if there is any information you could provide for me, even if I haven't directly asked for it, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,

- H

PS

Here is my original thread, if anyone would like to weigh in here, that would be awesome as well.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543435
 
There is a .17 mach2 and a .17hmr ( I'm sure that's what your referring to) there is also a new .17wsm. The 17mach2 is a .22lr casing that is necked down to accept a .17 caliber bullet. Stay away from this as ammunition is nearly impossible to find. The 17hmr is a .22 magnum casing necked down to take a .17 caliber bullet. The .22lr is probably what you want to start out with as the ammo is cheap as far as price goes. A .22 magnum uses the same bullet but has a longer case and a larger amount of power. In rifles the cartridges are not interchangable but in revolvers they sometimes are by putting a different cylinder on the gun.

The " 10/22" is a semi automatic rifle chambered in .22lr and is manufactured by Ruger.
 
Not entirely correct.

The .22 family consists of (can all be fired from a .22 Long Rifle chamber):

.22 Short - Short case, 27 grain pure lead bullet (no jacket)

.22 Long - Long case, same lead bullet as the short.

.22 Long Rifle - Long case, heavier (40 grains) lead bullet.

.22 Stinger -Longer case than the Long Rifle with a shorter/lighter (32 grain) lead bullet.

There are some others such as the CB and CB Long, but they are just light powered versions of the short and long.

.22 WRF - Winchesters first attempt at a faster .22, larger case than those above and a jacketed bullet. (Can be fired in a WMR chamber)

.22 WMR - Same case size as WRF, but higher pressure (faster) round.

Then you have the .17s

.17 Aguila and .17 PMC - Both use a necked down Long Rifle case and .17 jacketed bullet.

.17 HM2 - necked down Stinger case with .17 jacketed bullet.

.17 HMR - necked down WMR case with .17 jacketed bullet.

.17 WSM - Necked down nail-driving (construction) case with a .17 jacketed bullet.

And then there is the

5mm Remingon - Unique case with a .20 jacketed bullet.

There is a picture showing some of the above side by side found here:

http://www.varminter.com/forums/topic/8344-rimfire-comparison-picture-17-thru-5mm/
 
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As for rifles, the Ruger 10/22 is the #1 choice in a semi-auto these days due to it's easy-to-customize modular design. It uses a rotary box magazine that holds 10 rounds but still fits flush to the bottom of the stock.

Ruger also makes a bolt action in the three most popular rimfires (.22LR, .22WMR, .17HMR). They are quickly gaining a very good reputation, use the same magazine as the 10/22 and would be my recommendation for an entry-level bolt gun.

The CZs are good rifles, although a good bit more expensive and they come with a conventional single stack 5 round magazine. Long/heavy barrels, in a field gun, are not my first choice, to me they are fine for ranges, but get burdensome quickly when out for a walk.
 
1.the pros to the 22 are very high , in that the ammo is low cost, there is no recoil , and they are very accurate.

i have 3 bolt action rim fire 22's and they are ex hunting rifles(meaning i inherited them) , but they are accurate, look nice and are easy to train with.

another though is a 223 rifle. they are a higher caliber, but with the right setup, they dont make much recoil, and are good usually out to 200+ yards, and accurate, while being low cost ammo (about 9$ a box for me)

2.now the true question you need to address is, what purpose is the gun going to serve.

target, hunting, accuracy, tournament, custom

there are plenty of ranges and things a rifle can be selected for. the design and construction of a rifle is tailored to suit a need.

for instance i have a howa 1500 (hunting rifle) that i am slowly making into a target rifle for tournaments.

i have a Mosin Nagant 91/30 (military rifle) that i built into a long range target rifle.

these are both bolt actions that i have re-purposed to suit my needs and they function marvelously at there new profession.

there is 2 pros to having a bolt over a semi auto and thats a heavy bullet and more accuracy. unlike the semis of a m14/soccom or m1 garand which have a piston system which means lots of moving parts, that reduce accuracy (now these are accurate guns but the piston system means the bullets weight must be reduced, or you could break things) (but semis have large ammo capacity and can shoot many rounds per /sec)

now a heavy bullet will tend to do a arc system after so many yards (Coriolis effect). were a lighter bullet tends to maintain it shot path long(but with less initial force on contact)

for example
say we have 2 guns both in 308(my fav caliber), both are bolt action, now we fire a 55 grain bullet at a target 200 yards, say a metal plate. the plate is hit and it swings a bit and comes back into position. now we fire a 200 grain bullet out rifle 2. the target is hit but we have a huge impact and the plate makes a loud thud and is swinging like crazy.

your wondering, why i gave a physics lesson, well the speed of the bullet is proportional to it mass, the more mass, less speed, but greater impact upon the target. this is important for hunting and a lighter bullet means longer range with less effect (maybe more wind issue but oh well), thats more applicable to target shooting


so i will give you a question, i give to those i teach to shoot, who ask for a gun recommendation.

would you like a gun thats fun to shoot, and that you'll continue to enjoy for years to come?

if so , plan out the stages of this guns use. to first train yourself in safe handling, to then train with it, to know your gun, and then progress with experience at shooting it.

select a caliber, get a good starter gun and hone your skills, till your ready to move onto another caliber, or gun type.

i will state that i disprove of a new shooter taking on a high caliber like 308,30_06, 300 win, as they sound really"loud", and "cool", but if your not used to shooting recoil of a lower caliber, the higher cals can scare and even make you fear to shoot your own gun. its very common occurrence lately, and ive had plenty of friends do it.

so in conclusion, im sorry i rambled on this, but please take real consideration in your rifle choice, and keep us posted on the progress of both you and your rifle. we are always here to help and i always like to help with project guns.
~duzell
 
Everyone should have a single shot .22 in order to shoot all the various types of .22 ammo. The preferred type of single shot .22 for this purpose, for my money, is a turnbolt single shot .22, but a break open is fine too.

In single shots, I have a Savage Cub (turnbolt) which I use to shoot Colibris and such. I also have a T/C Hot Shot (break action) with a peep rear sight which is my "kayaking & packpacking rifle" - I use standard ammo (Wolf Match Target) in it.

So I think you're definitely on the right track. As much as I love the CZ 452, 453, and 455, they do have a big drawback AFAIAC - that is the ease with which the mag release button can be bumped in the field.

I gave my nephew a CZ 452 Scout with a "single shot adapter mag" - when he gets to be 14 or 15 years, I'll give him the 5 rounder. :)

I'm not a fan of semi-auto .22s - I can't see any use or purpose. First, they don't feed shorts, subsonics, colibris and other specialty ammo reliably. Second, anything you do with a .22, you just don't need semi-auto capability, so why chase your empties around to make cleanup harder? Small game / varmints, plinking, target - no need for semi-auto, so why sacrifice a higher level of reliability? To me, semi-autos are for defense guns only, and no one uses a rimfire for defense (almost no one anyhow). Having said that, I've been thinking that if Kel-Tec would re-design the PMR30 to be more robust and have TWO firing pins instead of one like the old large-bore rimfires from the 19th century, to ensure uber-reliability with rimfire priming, such an improved PMR-30 would make a helluva a formidible self-defense weapon, particularly for the recoil-sensitive.


Single shot, lever, or pump, in that order, are where it's at in .22 rifles - but only levers & pumps which are *known* to feed shorts. I think my Marlin 39 TDS is the last rifle I'd ever part with; certainly the last rimfire. What a thing of beauty - will feed anything, cycles quickly, breaks down, super high quality & good looks, and reminds me of old Western movies. :)
 
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My first gun (which I still have!) was a Remington 581. Never had any complaints about the accuracy, it's a simple bolt action, clearly marked '22 short, long, or long rifle' on the side of the barrel. Fun to shoot and easy to learn on. A while back I got a marlin 60, tube feed, semi-auto 22lr, I put a peep sight on it and it shoots pretty well, also lots of fun. The Rem581 and Marlin 60 are barely $100 guns on any used rack, although if I was in the market for a 22 I think I would probably get one of those Ruger American Rimfire 22's.
 
mossberg makes a few good 22 long rifles, have 2 of them, and one was the first gun i learned to shoot on.
 
The nice thing about a bolt 22, especially a single-shot is,,,

The nice thing about a bolt .22,,,
Especially a single-shot version is,,,
You will never outgrow that first rifle.

Well, maybe "never" is a bit strong,,,
Bit I'll bet a brick of ammo that you shoot it forever.

My rifle & pistol club is only 25 minutes from work,,,
In the spring and summer I go right after I get off from work.

With my single-shot .22's,,,
I can practice my marksmanship skills,,,
And not spend a ton on the scarce ammunition,,,
Typically I will shoot a box of 50 rounds in about 30-40 minutes.

Now I own several .22 rifles:
  • H&R Sportster break-open single-shot.
  • Henry Acu-Bolt bolt-action single-shot.
  • Cricket bolt-action single-shot, for kids of my friends.
  • Mossberg 340KC bolt-action repeater.
  • CZ-452 Special Military Trainer bolt-action repeater with a single-shot adapter.
  • Mossberg 702 Plinkster semi-auto repeater tricked out for Appleseed.
  • Beretta U22 NEOS Carbine with a 4X scope also for Appleseed events.

My semi-autos sees the least use of them all,,,
My Henry sees the most use as it's just fun to shoot,,,
When I really get serious in rimfire silhouette it's the Mossberg or the CZ.

It's fun to haul out the semi's and do some mag dumps,,,
But for the most part I like leisurely shooting,,,
Single-shot or slow bolt-action suits me.

My point is this, semi-auto rifles are fun,,,
But they do not instill discipline like a single-shot or bolt-action will.

You can, and probably will, buy a semi-auto at some point,,,
But if you start out with a "slower shooting" .22 rifle,,,
You will probably progress better as a marksman

JMHO - YMMV

Aarond

.
 
Ammo availability

Before you go out and buy one I would check your local stores for ammo availability. I know around here, NW Indiana, I can't find 22lr anywhere. I can however step into any gun store and pick up 17hmr. While 17 ammo is pricier I'm considering picking one up just because I would be able to shoot it. As far as recommendations for a bolt action (whether that be 22 or 17) I'm going to suggest savage. I own both a Model 64 (semi auto) and a Mark II (bolt) and both are great guns and relatively inexpensive. Triggers are good and have had zero problems with both.
 
9x19 said:
.22 Stinger
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".22 Stinger" is not a cartridge of it's own. It is a CCI brand name version of .22LR and listed by CCI as a sub-brand of their .22LR ammo.

Even though the case is longer (~0.702) than SAAMI max spec (0.613), it is still much shorter than SAAMI minimum chamber (0.818) and is designed and marketed to be fired in .22LR guns, even though there are a few that it won't work in.
 
I have three bolt action .22s and they are a lot of fun to shoot.

I have been testing a CZ 452 and Ruger 77-22 for the last couple of weeks.

Both rifles have been bedded and have a trigger job. The 77-22 has also been pillar bedded.

Tomorrow, I will take the MPR 64 and shoot Lapua Standard and Lapua Center X at 50 yards to get a comparison of the three rifles.

So far, the CZ likes the Center X and the Ruger likes the Standard.

Then I will move the target out to 100 yards and see how they do there.
 
After looking around for a while, I think I like the CZ 455 varmint due to its seemingly great reputation, and thick barrel.
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That is the exact rifle I was going to recommend that you buy. I own a CZ 455 varmint that I shoot at the 100 yard benchrest matches at my local gun club. It's very, very accurate. The only thing that really needed an improvement for benchrest shooting was the trigger. I got an adjustable sear and lighter spring from DI products and got the pull weight from 4 pounds down to 8 ounces safely. With no wind and decent ammo, a perfect match score is a real possibility.

If you're on a tight budget, the Savage MKII FV is a very accurate choice for around $200.
 
First of all, what's up with the .17 ammo. Is this something I should be looking into, or do I want the .22? What are some of the significant differences here?
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The 17 rimfires except for the .17 WSM are necked down version of their .22 caliber counterparts. 17 HM2/22 LR, 17 HMR/22 Magnum. Smaller bullets behind the same amount of powder will move faster.

Additionally, could someone break down for me the differences between the .22, .22LR, and .22 mag? Are these largely interchangeable when it comes to rifles, or will they require different platforms?
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Never put a .22 short, .22 long, or .22 long rifle in a .22 mag. A .22 mag probably won't chamber in one made for one of the smaller .22 varieties. Some guns can fire a variety of .22, my Henry can shoot, short, long, and long rifle .22. Others will only be designed to function with one of them. Read your manual, and only put the types of rounds that are likely stamped on the barrel of the gun.

Is bolt action what I'm looking for? I am looking for essentially a practice rifle (as it pertains to both shooting and maintenance) that is as accurate as possible. It seems that the bolt action (in general) is regarded as more accurate than semi auto, pump, or lever action. It looked to me like the bolt action rifles were the ones people were competing with. Is my assessment here accurate?
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A bolt action would serve you well for this purpose. Easily maintains, easily cleaned,great to practice with.

What is a 10/22? I have seen this come up a few times and I don't what the designation means.
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It is typically used to describe the ever popular Ruger semi-automatic .22LR rifle. Great little guns.

After looking around for a while, I think I like the CZ 455 varmint due to its seemingly great reputation, and thick barrel.What do you all think of this choice? If I am looking for accuracy, reliability, and the beefiest possible construction, is this the one for me? Are there any other similar models you could recommend?
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I would happily own this rifle, it's probably a great one if you can find one. Interchangeable barrels on it too, with a .22LR/.22 magnum/17 HMR barrels you definitely have options. Probably very accurate, reliable, and versatile.

I have looked at some of the Anschutz models, but I'm not sure I want to take that plunge just yet, particularly for a .22.
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Crazy expensive, the CZ will do everything you need a rimfire rifle to do for the rest of your life, and likely your children's lives if well taken care of.
 
Klein Helmer wrote:


After looking around for a while, I think I like the CZ 455 varmint due to its seemingly great reputation, and thick barrel.

What do you all think of this choice? If I am looking for accuracy, reliability, and the beefiest possible construction, is this the one for me? Are there any other similar models you could recommend?

I have looked at some of the Anschutz models, but I'm not sure I want to take that plunge just yet, particularly for a .22.

I realize I may not even be asking the right questions, so if there is any information you could provide for me, even if I haven't directly asked for it, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,

- H
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- H,

Your asking the right questions and headed in the right direction!

alex0535 is right that CZ455 Varmint will do everything you may want it to do except whip an Anschutz or a Rem 40-XB in competition.
 
^An exceptional accurate CZ in the right hands might give an average Anschutz a run for it's money. CZ makes great rifles, but some of them that leave the factory will shoot better than others.

I have an exceptional Marlin .17 HMR. Not particularly noted for exceptional accuracy. At 75 yards, I can more than cover the groups with a dime. Playing card symbols at this range are my preferred paper target. I know it's different calibers, but I feel like I could keep up with a $2000 rifle with my $200 rifle at 50-100 yards all day long.

For a .22 I would be pretty pleased with anything better than 1" at 100 yards or half an inch at 50 yards after finding the type of ammo it shoots the best. Half inch at 100 and a quarter inch at 50 is a rifle I would keep and love forever. For a new shooter either of these will probably be more accurate than you are at least for a while. Once your skill gets to a point where you can shoot better than the gun is capable, it's time to get something more accurate.
 
If you have a decently accurate .22lr, the accuracy of the ammo you're shooting is more of the limiting factor than the rifle itself.

Some type of subsonic match ammo will almost always give the best accuracy past 50 yards. Ammo that leaves the barrel super-sonic (over about 1125 fps) will fall below the speed of sound at some point if you're shooting 50 yards or more. When the speed of the bullet falls into that trans-sonic stage, it loses stability, and becomes inaccurate. A bullet that leaves the barrel sub-sonic will not have to go through the trans-sonic stage, therefore making it more stable. So if you want to shoot 100 yards with a .22, skip the high velocity stuff and go straight for the subsonic.

Finding the specific ammo (sometimes even the specific lot #) that your rifle likes will show a rifle's true potential, it just takes some trial and error finding it.

When you finally find that "magic" combination of rifle and ammo, you can start swearing by it, instead of at it ;)
 
I would get the CZ 452. I like (and have) the MT (Military Trainer though there are a number of variants oriented toward different aspect). Decent iron site and setup for rings and mounts a scope nicely.

Contrary to reports you can get the rings pretty low cost (would have to look those up, just remembered, Warner) they fit either the CZ dovetail (in mm) or 3/8 as I recalled depending on how you orient the clamp. Works just fine on the CZ.

Supposedly 452 out of produciton but there are plenty available.

Accurate with all ammo, can fine tune to what it likes.

If there is an issue that applies to all of them 22LR is hard to get and the more target/match stuff if you really want to shoot tight groups is very hard.

Only complaint is the 5 round magazine, would prefer 10 and you can get them but at extra cost. Nice wood generality on the stock and good old time feel. More a range gun but no reasons you could not woods it as well.
 
Brian P.,

You're correct and I listed the Stinger separately only to point out it's longer case, and because it is the parent case for the .17HM2, rather than the shorter LR case. I did mention it can be fired from a Long Rifle chamber.
 
alex0535 wrote:
..... For a new shooter either of these will probably be more accurate than you are at least for a while. Once your skill gets to a point where you can shoot better than the gun is capable, it's time to get something more accurate.
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Yep - h,

Got to agree again. This is a good point!

I also have a very accurate 10/22 ($$$$.$$) that I have competed. I've helded a world record with it for 15 months some yrs ago. It and I held off many other Rugers and CZs. But lost to Anschtuz 3 times in shoot-offs.

That CZ varmint is a real good rifle.
If you plan to compete, it should hang-in-there. But only you can answer to question about how good you really are. I'd say, like alex did, buy it and shoot it until you know your better than it is!
 
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