I shoot low with a revolver, high with a semiauto. How best to improve?

T

tkglazie

New member
Title says it all. With my P89 and Bersa Model 83 I shoot high (and slightly right), with my wife's 3" SP101 .357 I shoot low. When I do flinch, which is less often now, it is low left. I try to keep a firm grip overall and generally try to follow Ayoob's methods as much as possible. I primarily shoot DA but the condition exists in SA also.

I have ready access to a range close by and I reload, and I have plenty of opportunity to practice.

Recommendations?

Thanks in advance,
Tony
 
Your SP101 has fixed sights, no? Could be a sight/ammo issue. Your SP101 groups are low, but are they reasonably tight & consistent? What grain .357mag were you shooting? If not 158gr, I'd try that and see if your POI comes up.
 
I shoot low with a revolver, high with a semiauto. How best to improve?
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Practice. Take a class. There are a lot of details about proper grip and stance that not immediately obvious.

For the fixed sight revolver, I agree, find the right load.

Try 158 grain LSWC .38 special. I'd bet money that will shoot dead on, if your grip, stance, trigger handling, etc. are all good.

Do all of this, before you even think about monkeying with the sights.
 
I shoot primarily .38 148gr HBWC at low velocities with the SP101. I am actually more concerned with the semiautos shooting high than the revolver shooting low. I forgot to mention that I have a meprolight truglo front sight on the SP101 that is a contributing factor for it shooting low. I am trying to get used to centering the dot with the top of the rear sights rather than lining the top of the blade up. That helps a great deal but it is hard to make it instinctive.

Groups are consistent with all 3 guns.
 
tkglazie:

Dryfiring helps you to take control of your handguns. Stand in front of a blank white wall without a target. In this exercise you will develope contorl of your handgun. Practice different trigger fiinger placement, thumb placement, and grip. At the same time practice getting the trigger to release without disturbing the sights. Any sight movement will be evident on the white wall. The trigger should release as a surprise. When this is carried to the firingline the trigger will release before you can flinch.

Semper Fi.


Gunnery Sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
You might be breaking your wrist as you shoot.
Not actually, of course, but allowing it/them to kind of swivel up or down, instead of being locked straight and in alignment with the forearm.
An effective grip is something that needs to be learned.
Kind of hard to do it long distance, though.
 
Putting the palm swell in your palm correctly is half the battle. Proper fitting grips are important. Choking up on a grip will change the poi. How far you stick your trigger finger on the trigger changes poi. Load is important, muzzle loaders dial in with load. If your committed to fixed sights, a loading press can help.
 
My SP shoots much lower with hot 125gr magnums that it does with 158gr .38's.

If you want, you can either place a lower front sight on the weapon or just file it down some.
 
Already seeing much much better results with a higher grip, firmer grip pressure and my arms locked out. I think I have been so focused on the reloading that I figured the answer was inside the cartridge as much as it was my technique. With my poor grip I think the .380 and 9mm were moving too much in my hands and shooting high, while the revolver (which has much smaller grips, since it is my wife's gun) was much more in control all along, but shooting a little low due to the taller front sight.

Sometimes it really does help to just get a discussion going and get some fresh ideas in your head. Thanks again all.

For those that recommended additional training and instruction, I will definitely be taking advantage of the fact that some of the best handgun shooters and instructors in the region are members of the sportsmans club I just joined. I figured I should at least get down to consistent fist-sized DA groups at 25-30' before I waste their time though.
 
Remember in all these drills....it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Bullseye shooting ....nice and slow / careful squeeze...grip pressure ...don't steer the gun ...all this stuff works really well / and yes you ought to able to fire a fist sized group ( about 5" accross ) pretty easily at 30 Feet.

Tactical shooting ...is a very different issue. Your target area might be 12" wide and 18" tall ...kind of like from nipple to nipple ...and down to the belly button ( in the chest area ) ...yes, ideally you want to center punch the chest area...but any hit in that area is as good a shot as any other. The question is ...can you do it quickly .../ and quickly from the high ready position vs drawing from a holster are a little different... maybe a double tap from high ready in under 1.5 sec ....and maybe 2.5 sec coming out of a holster are good standards for you ( over even add 0.5 sec to each ) ...so you start your learning curve. Making that move safely and consistently is a really big deal ...and very different than Bulls Eye shooting.

Picking the right gun / or the right platform for yourself ...and right caliber - etc...is all about what fits your hands the best / many guns, you can change the grips on them - buying different grips / some have changeable backstraps, etc. ...making sure you can reach the controls on the gun comfortably without changing your grip is a big deal ...all of this stuff makes a really big difference. Grips on revolvers and semi-autos are a little different typically ...so do some research on all this stuff...read some good books like Combat Handgunnery ...a gun digest book from Massad Ayoob...is a good one ....

http://www.amazon.com/The-Digest-Book-Combat-Handgunnery/dp/0896895254

Some thoughts on 2 drills : ( there are lots more out there to run )

Accuracy ... on a T-2 target tape a 4" red square left of center ..and another red 4" square right of center ...and a 8" by 8" green square at the bottom of the T-2......so you have 3 different targets on a standard T-2 paper target.

From the high ready ....single tap each red target ...and then double tap the green one. Do it in under 5 sec...to start with say ...
a. put Target at 6 Feet.... ( 4 shots )
then at 9 Ft, then 12 Ft, then 15 Ft, then 18 Ft, and 21 Ft ( so 24 shots total ). If you can run this 100% clean - under the alloted time --- then drop the time 0.5 sec...until you can't do it consistently. See how it goes !
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If you're holster certified ....try the same drill, drawing from a holster.

Speed Drill ...
Tape up a standard T-2 target... any hit on a T-2 is a good shot.
From the ready or from a holster....
again at 6 Ft, 9 ' , 12 ', 15', 18', 21 ' ....and 24' ...27' and 30' ....can you double tap that target in under 1.5 sec from high ready / can you do it in under 2.0 sec from a holster....and can you run it 100% clean to at least 21 Feet ...or out to 24 Feet ...or 30 Feet.

You don't need any special equipment.. to run these drills.

Maybe at the start of your range session ....take 6 rounds ...and fire, slow fire, the best 6 shot group you can do at 24 Ft or whatever..( see if you can cover all 6 shots with a quarter or a .50 cent piece coin. date and time the target /put it aside.

After you run your drills for the day .....do this 6 round drill again ....is it better or worse. If you can cover it with a .50 cent piece at 24 Ft...move to 27 Ft and then 30 Ft. Some days I can do it very well ...some days I can't ...but its all part of the game / and tuning up your concentration and muscle memory .../doing it on every range trip will probably make you a better shooter over time ....
 
I concede there can be technique issues that will shift your groups around.

Fair to say,if you need to work on fundementals,well,enjoy!

But,if I give you benefit of the doubt,my FIRST flash would be "Adjust your sights" or,if it is only a minor elevation thing,Kentucky hold compensation MAY be OK.

I have learned you can shift POI around with loads,the recoil impulse matters.

Heavy vs light bullets,quick/slow powder.It may be you have to find THE load.

IMO,if you have a natural,proper,repeatable grip,trying to "choke up on the bat"to move POI.....not the answer I would choose.Too fickle,and cannot be counted on in a hurry.

Of course,sight alteration is possible.

It can be the shooter,but if the shooter is competent,adjust load/sights
 
I shoot low with a revolver, high with a semiauto. How best to improve?
Click to expand...

Just take Lewis Grizzard's advice... to Aim Low, Boys - They're Ridin' Shetlands. So use the revolver and just aim dead on (and thus shoot low.)

And watch out for those Copper headed water rattlers!

Deaf
 
Very nice, I am loving the last 3 posts.

The best part is, I can only think of one other thing that is as much fun to practice as shooting is....
 
Thats right BigJim, of course I meant reloading...


oh and by the way, that Ayoob book is available on the Kindle. Only cost me $9. Couple months ago I got the ABCs of Reloading for free on the Kindle. Ah, technology....what won't it do....
 
I'd invest in a good quality steel target, Action Target makes an "Evil Roy" portable model. The instant feedback will help you learn what you need to do to hit the target reliably.

I have two of their targets: one with an 8 inch target head and another stand with a 36" X 24" target. The 8 inch target really makes you focus on your fundamentals at 20 yards or more.
 
I bet if you shot one of these you would be right on the money.

It's a Webley-Fosbery Self-Cocking Automatic Revolver.

300px-Webley-Fosbery_1837.jpg
 
Wow, the Ayoob Gun Digest of Combat Handgunnery is outstanding. His explanation of the various grips is invaluable. I had already adopted the crush grip from reading other of his works, but his breakdown of the whys and why nots of thumb placement were a revelation. Just switching from a thumbs forward grip to a thumbs locked grip (right thumb down, left thumb on top of it, just behind the distal joint) brought my POI down significantly. The amount of force I can apply to the stocks is greatly improved, and unlike the 2 thumbs down grip my trigger finger doesnt touch my left thumb.
 
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