I need to cure a flinch.
- Thread starter Spats McGee
- Start date
Yes, but think what a flintlock could do for follow thru.
We can post page after page on the subject, but if one concentrates on the front sight until the shot breaks, there will be no flinch--at least not until after the shot. Don't think there's any other solution, though rapid fire tends to eliminate flinch--after the first shot. BUT, if you lose you concentration on the F sight during rapid fire, you miss for another reason--sight not on target.
That works with a true surprise break for the shot. If the shooter can predict the break then the flinch can still happen even if they are concentrating on the front sight. This is why it can be so hard to convince people they are flinching--they're sure they're concentrating on the front sight right up until the shot. In reality, a tiny fraction of an instant before the shot breaks, they're flinching. You can see it happen on high-speed footage where the shooter consistently blinks just as/just before the hammer falls.
The ball and dummy drill can be a good way to convince someone they're not concentrating all the way up to the shot but are flinching just before/as the shot breaks. Another good way is to ask them what the muzzle flash looks like. If they're not flinching, they should remember seeing the muzzle flash.
Do it "how you are supposed to do it" enough, and it becomes ingrained, subconscious, and you will not flinch.
It does take a lot of reps to get there, though.
This: Some "rocksmashers" have a built in ball and dummy drill ........ and the "clack-f-Boom!" lock time will either teach you to hold still, or you'll NEVER hit anything on purpose.
Ok this is going to be short and sweet and very simplified because I hate typing and no one wants to read two pages of information on dry fire.
A lot can be cured through dry fire practice if it is done properly and with regularity. The majority of people simply do dry practice wrong or a nicer way to put it, they don’t approach it with the proper mindset. Typically when people do dry practice they simply look at it as doing simple repetitive drills to work on a skill set. That is only one aspect of dry practice. The other and more important aspect is the physical workout to gain proper strength and muscle control that you should be getting from it.
What happens is people do not grip the gun with the same amount of force during dry practice as they do during live fire. As a result they have not trained the proper muscle tension or control to set or lock the muscles into place to prevent movement. If you work harder on setting the grip with strong tension to the point that after a 15-30 minute dry practice session you find you are getting that muscle burn in your hands wrist and forearms you will start to see improvement. It is no easy feat to learn total isolation of the trigger finger, but that is a huge hurtle! This is not just my personal thoughts on the matter; I have had personal conversations with Rob Leatham regarding this.
Also people don’t know how to analyze what they are doing wrong because of lack of body awareness (if you can’t feel it you cant stop it) and improper analysis (I jerked the trigger). People often over simplify what causes their misses by say I jerked the trigger or I anticipated. It takes more than that. First I will tell you, you cannot jerk your trigger finger alone hard enough or fast enough to cause a miss if it is properly isolated. A miss is caused by the other muscles in the hand wrist and forearm moving as you press the trigger. This is where the working out comes into play to train the trigger finger to work independently of the rest of the hand and to keep those muscles set or locked during the entire shooting process.
This is also where a shooting coach helps out! I don't care how good you are you still could use a coach to get better.
A lot can be cured through dry fire practice if it is done properly and with regularity. The majority of people simply do dry practice wrong or a nicer way to put it, they don’t approach it with the proper mindset. Typically when people do dry practice they simply look at it as doing simple repetitive drills to work on a skill set. That is only one aspect of dry practice. The other and more important aspect is the physical workout to gain proper strength and muscle control that you should be getting from it.
What happens is people do not grip the gun with the same amount of force during dry practice as they do during live fire. As a result they have not trained the proper muscle tension or control to set or lock the muscles into place to prevent movement. If you work harder on setting the grip with strong tension to the point that after a 15-30 minute dry practice session you find you are getting that muscle burn in your hands wrist and forearms you will start to see improvement. It is no easy feat to learn total isolation of the trigger finger, but that is a huge hurtle! This is not just my personal thoughts on the matter; I have had personal conversations with Rob Leatham regarding this.
Also people don’t know how to analyze what they are doing wrong because of lack of body awareness (if you can’t feel it you cant stop it) and improper analysis (I jerked the trigger). People often over simplify what causes their misses by say I jerked the trigger or I anticipated. It takes more than that. First I will tell you, you cannot jerk your trigger finger alone hard enough or fast enough to cause a miss if it is properly isolated. A miss is caused by the other muscles in the hand wrist and forearm moving as you press the trigger. This is where the working out comes into play to train the trigger finger to work independently of the rest of the hand and to keep those muscles set or locked during the entire shooting process.
This is also where a shooting coach helps out! I don't care how good you are you still could use a coach to get better.
Spats McGee
Administrator
My home computer died a while back, so I haven't been able to respond to this thread as much as I'd have liked. There's only so much typing I can stand to do on a phone.
That said, I wanted to thank all of you again for your tips. I'll be going back through them and implementing those that I can. I don't have the budget to go buy some of the heavy-trigger revolvers that I've seen mentioned, but I can probably borrow a reasonable facsimile from a buddy.
I could, and can, compensate for the flinch, but I'd rather correct it.
That said, I wanted to thank all of you again for your tips. I'll be going back through them and implementing those that I can. I don't have the budget to go buy some of the heavy-trigger revolvers that I've seen mentioned, but I can probably borrow a reasonable facsimile from a buddy.
I could, and can, compensate for the flinch, but I'd rather correct it.
aarondhgraham
New member
brokenolmarine
Inactive
I taught LE firearms for years, coached in the Corps, and taught private classes. Two suggestions.
1. Someone else hit on what I though of first.
You may not be flinching, there are two things you may be doing that can cause those low shots.
a. Milking the grip: squeezing the trigger with your whole hand rather than the trigger finger alone.... aka milking.
When you tighten the bottom three fingers at the last instant as the trigger breaks, it pulls the muzzle down and the shot low. YOU control the trigger with the trigger finger, you grip the gun with your hand. Concentrate on TRIGGER control.
b. Looking Over the sights at the last second to see the impact of the shot.
When you do this, you drop the sight to see the target. I laugh and tell my students that the HOLES don't leave or hide, they'll still be there after follow thru. Make an effort to watch the front sight all the way thru the shot. Think FRONT SIGHT and focus solely on the sight, see the sight clearly as you apply trigger pressure until the shot breaks as a surprise. The last thing you saw when the shot broke should have been the CLEAR TIP OF THE FRONT SIGHT.
A drill to help you with trigger control is very simple and very cheap. All you need is a spent casing from your Glock 19... that's the gun you mentioned, right? (regardless of the gun used, I normally use a .38 casing)
UNLOAD and physically confirm a safe weapon!
Rack the slide to cock the striker
Balance the empty casing on the end of the slide just in front of the front sight.
You won't be able to see the front sight.... no problem
(You may find the drill easier if you paint a vertical line on the casing with a Sharpie)
Extend the pistol toward your target and sight as if the center of the casing was your front sight.
Squeeze the trigger smoothly concentrating on the sights, using the casing as your front sight ... until the trigger breaks.
If your trigger pull is smooth and undisturbed, the case will NOT fall off the slide. In fact, it won't move. It will flinch slightly when the striker breaks. Nothing else.
Tilt the glock, catch the casing and repeat the drill. Recock the striker by drawing the slide to the rear to cock the trigger / striker.
1. Someone else hit on what I though of first.
You may not be flinching, there are two things you may be doing that can cause those low shots.
a. Milking the grip: squeezing the trigger with your whole hand rather than the trigger finger alone.... aka milking.
When you tighten the bottom three fingers at the last instant as the trigger breaks, it pulls the muzzle down and the shot low. YOU control the trigger with the trigger finger, you grip the gun with your hand. Concentrate on TRIGGER control.
b. Looking Over the sights at the last second to see the impact of the shot.
When you do this, you drop the sight to see the target. I laugh and tell my students that the HOLES don't leave or hide, they'll still be there after follow thru. Make an effort to watch the front sight all the way thru the shot. Think FRONT SIGHT and focus solely on the sight, see the sight clearly as you apply trigger pressure until the shot breaks as a surprise. The last thing you saw when the shot broke should have been the CLEAR TIP OF THE FRONT SIGHT.
A drill to help you with trigger control is very simple and very cheap. All you need is a spent casing from your Glock 19... that's the gun you mentioned, right? (regardless of the gun used, I normally use a .38 casing)
UNLOAD and physically confirm a safe weapon!
Rack the slide to cock the striker
Balance the empty casing on the end of the slide just in front of the front sight.
You won't be able to see the front sight.... no problem
(You may find the drill easier if you paint a vertical line on the casing with a Sharpie)
Extend the pistol toward your target and sight as if the center of the casing was your front sight.
Squeeze the trigger smoothly concentrating on the sights, using the casing as your front sight ... until the trigger breaks.
If your trigger pull is smooth and undisturbed, the case will NOT fall off the slide. In fact, it won't move. It will flinch slightly when the striker breaks. Nothing else.
Tilt the glock, catch the casing and repeat the drill. Recock the striker by drawing the slide to the rear to cock the trigger / striker.
Yeah, there's a lot of different drills, I heard some guys used to take a match book- back when they had them, and practice bending over the lid.
I'm not sure but usually if you are pulling the shots, they'll all group off to one side. I had that trouble for a while- I was curling my finger too far around the trigger and getting a little sideways movement. If I shot on sandbags with two hands- right on so that's how I figured my one handed shooting was my fault and not the gun. It's more of an issue shooting double action with a longer trigger pull.
I'm not sure but usually if you are pulling the shots, they'll all group off to one side. I had that trouble for a while- I was curling my finger too far around the trigger and getting a little sideways movement. If I shot on sandbags with two hands- right on so that's how I figured my one handed shooting was my fault and not the gun. It's more of an issue shooting double action with a longer trigger pull.
When my son started shooting he had a "flinch" and I taught him the same way my father taught me...
I told him to put the bottom of his tongue on the top gums behind his teeth and as he squeezed the trigger, flick his tongue down to make that popping noise we make when we are kids... It works, for some reason your brain wont let you flinch, its doing to many things at once... My father was taught that by his brother, my uncle {vietnam sniper}. It works, I have showed a few guys over the years how to do it, then after a while you dont need to do it, and can shoot good...
Another thing that helped a buddy of mine was shooting glasses, he was flinching from the flash and the glasses stopped it...
I told him to put the bottom of his tongue on the top gums behind his teeth and as he squeezed the trigger, flick his tongue down to make that popping noise we make when we are kids... It works, for some reason your brain wont let you flinch, its doing to many things at once... My father was taught that by his brother, my uncle {vietnam sniper}. It works, I have showed a few guys over the years how to do it, then after a while you dont need to do it, and can shoot good...
Another thing that helped a buddy of mine was shooting glasses, he was flinching from the flash and the glasses stopped it...