I need some help with my Mosin Load

M

Mosin-Marauder

New member
Loaded a bunch of rounds for the Mosin and shot 3 groups at 100. All of them were about 4.5 MOA, which is no bueno, as I know this gun can do better (1 5/8" group at 75 yards.)

This loading was:

180 Grain Speer SP
43 Grains IMR 4064
Win Cases and WLR Primer

I have no clue why it's shooting this bad, only that it's not me. 3 groups shot the same way, good trigger press, etc, and all bad groups.

This was the same grain bullet that I shot the group at 75 yards with (180) and that was actually a really good group. Could it be the powder? Should I keep working up to a max load? (Not loading all the way at max though, will stop at 44 grains, 45 grains is max). What powder should I use instead Of this one? Thank you for any help you can provide!

Regards,

-Mo.
 
Mo,

That powder is too fast.

Slow down to Varget or H4350. Anything 174 grain and heavier I load performs best with H4350.

Regards,

Josh
 
The lyman 44 manual shows several powders but at the bottom they show a best accuracy load and a factory duplication load.

Both in those categories are IMR4350 at 53.0 and 53.1 grains
 
That powder is too fast. Slow down to Varget or H4350
Click to expand...


What? Varget is actually a little faster than IMR4064.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

I have good luck with IMR4064 in my Mosins.

mosin_pu_handloads.jpg


7.62X54R cases are similar size to 308 Win, and IMR4064 is my goto powder for cases that size. IMR4350 for me at least works better in larger cases, .30-06 sized.

How did you come up with 43 grains?
 
If powder choice and charge weight don't get you anywhere, try the Hornady 174 gr RNs, or at least try a .312" bullet.
As I've mentioned many times before... The 174 RNs have been the best bullet in all ".32 caliber" rifles in my family (7.7x58mm Jap and 7.62x54R).

And, aside from the 174s, we have generally found that length and bearing surface are king. (And, in regard to all of the above, that makes the .312/.313 215 gr Woodleigh Weldcore RNs an unstoppable force. ;))

Even the Hornady .308" 220 gr RN might be a fair option, for the larger bearing surface.
 
Frankenmauser kinda brings up a good point. Have you slugged your bbl to get an idea of what caliber bullet you ought to be trying to squirt out of it?
 
I know I've mentioned it before, but I figured I'd throw it out there again...

My best loads for 150s and 174s use IMR4064 and H380.
In my M38, 4064 is decent. H380 is better.
 
Been reloading for Moisins many years.
My number one rule is to slug the bore first. Bore diameters are all over the place in these rifles.

Once you have the nominal bore diameter, use appropriate diameter bullets and watch groups shrink.

Most Moisins I have reloaded for like bullets > 150gr.
 
Been reloading for Moisins many years.
My number one rule is to slug the bore first. Bore diameters are all over the place in these rifles.
Click to expand...

There's only two commercial choices, pick A (.311) or B (.312). That's it, unless you've got a target variation of the M28 like the M28/76 that has a .308 groove barrel.

Mo, if this is not a hunting application, try the .311, 174 grain SMK over 43.5 of Varget (it's always best to work up, but this load is nowhere near max). I've never had a Mosin that didn't shoot this load well.

7.62 x 54R is very close to the .308 unless it's hotrodded, and Varget is one of the main go-to powders for that chambering. It has the added benefit of being temp insensitive- which is a huge factor in my book.

With 180's, you need a faster burning powder than H4350, RL 17, etc. which I've found work best with bullets in the 140-162 grain classes in our .260 and 7-08. Lighter bullets generally have better velocity and lower SD's with slower powders- in my experience. YMMV...
 
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FrankenMauser,

This is what my rifle did with the 174 grain round nose, long bearing surface bullets:

vertical%20stringing%20hornady%20round%20nose.jpg


And again...

verticalstringing.jpg


That second target was shot to verify the first target.

Notice the dead-on first shot. Then notice the slight drift to the right and the vertical stringing.

I let the barrel cool for about an hour and shot again. The second vertical string repeated the first almost perfectly!

My barrel slugs to 0.3095" which is rare for a Russian. I like to keep it at 0.311" or less on the bullets.

That long bearing 0.312" bullet just heated the barrel too fast!

Regards,

Josh
 
Emcon,

Looking into the burn rate, Hodgdon has listed, from fastest to slowest:

#95 IMR Co IMR 4064

#101 Hodgdon VARGET

# 117 Hodgdon H4350

Reference http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2014-2015.pdf

Additionally, they list starting loads as

IMR 4064 42.5 grains

Varget 43.0 grains

H4350 51.0 grains

... for a 180 grain bullet. These charges reflect fast-to-slow burn rates.

I don't know if they changed the burn rate for 4064 or if the sources referenced are wrong. I'll use Hodgdon as a reference, though.

Regards,

Josh
 
I have had excellent results w/ IMR 4064. I have used Horn. 174gr RN and a stiffer load then you are using. There are a handful of other bullets I have used, all with IMR 4064.
 
FrankenMauser,

This is what my rifle did with the 174 grain round nose, long bearing surface bullets:



And again...



That second target was shot to verify the first target.

Notice the dead-on first shot. Then notice the slight drift to the right and the vertical stringing.

I let the barrel cool for about an hour and shot again. The second vertical string repeated the first almost perfectly!

My barrel slugs to 0.3095" which is rare for a Russian. I like to keep it at 0.311" or less on the bullets.

That long bearing 0.312" bullet just heated the barrel too fast!

Regards,

Josh
Click to expand...
That vertical stringing is off the charts. :eek:

It looks like it would be a great group, if the barrel wasn't reaching for the heavens with each shot.
 
sorry to be disagreeable, but I thin 4064 is the single BEST powder for 54r. I can't why it'd be too fast. small increments make a big difference. let me guide you to my work-up target using 4064 and 175gr bullets....




these are half grain incements from 44 up to 46gr increments. notice how it does much better in the high velocity ranges. don't be afraid to work up to max, don't think your going to blow a mosin using 4064. varget is worth a try, but it is not much different than 4064 except better temp stability. the middle shoot n c target that is the worst, is the same 200gr stuff I sent you. my gun didn't like it much
 
As Frankenmauser said:" have generally found that length and bearing surface are king." That is spot on advice.

I seat the Horn 174gr RN longer than where the cannilure is. There is a lot of accurising info available on the 'net that can help. These rifles can shoot as accurate as any Mauser. I feel all warm and fuzzy with proud self-satisfaction when I outshoot people with scoped rifles.
 
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