I need some help on .223 defensive ammo

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Opie-IN

New member
I picked up my first AR yesterday, and there is not much left in .223 ammo locally. I was able to find 45gr winchester white box, labeled as "hollow point varmint rounds @3600 fps". Its at wal-mart at 11.99 for a 40 round box. Will this be a decent round for the house? I picked up one box, just so I would have a few rounds for the gun, should I go back and grab whats left, or start looking elsewhere.

Thanks, Brian
 
.223 is not a defensive round :D .

For that kind of price the 45gr winchester better be good. 120 rnd battle pack only cost me 19.95.
 
OK, let me re-phrase. A heard of juvenile sasquatch (6'1", 230lbs)invade my house after smoking crack they got from killing some drug dealers on the way out of the forest. Would the ammo I picked up be decent for this scenerio? I do kinda like my car, and dont want to end up with a round going thru a sasquatch and going outside my house and into my ride, which is why I am afraid of using FMJ.

I hope this cleared up my question

Opie
 
Opie: 11.99 a box for .223 is way too much. get to a gun shop and find some Winchester USA brand for about $5.00 Remington UMC goes for about the same. Russian Wolf and Barnaul can be had for around $3.00 a box. Save up some cash and go to the Indy Gun and Knife show this coming October and pick up a case or some battle packs some good deals can be found.

As far as using an AR-15 for home defense Please be extremly careful the .223 round might look small but use caution you could shoot through an intruder and kill a loved one in the next room. My first choice for home defense is my Remington 870 20 in smooth bore 12ga slug gun full of #4 buck.
Good luck
 
i think you guys are correct...223 i would not recommend as a home defense round...this advice is posted elsewhere..go with the 20 guage..but dont buy a pump 20guage..u need a semi..and bear in mind at living room length a shotgun is as easy to miss with as a handgun..my 2 cents..HK-out
 
OK, let me re-phrase. A heard of juvenile sasquatch (6'1", 230lbs)invade my house after smoking crack they got from killing some drug dealers on the way out of the forest. Would the ammo I picked up be decent for this scenerio? I do kinda like my car, and dont want to end up with a round going thru a sasquatch and going outside my house and into my ride, which is why I am afraid of using FMJ.
Click to expand...

It really doesn't matter that much for rifle caliber in term penetration (FMJ or HP) of human bodies and light armor objects like a car door. A FMJ or HP will almost act the same way going through a human body. It will go through them like a hot knife through an ice-cream cake. Do not think that HP rifle cartridges acts the same way as a HP pistol cartridges, it doesn’t. Rife and pistol cartridges are two completely different beast.

But one thing is for sure; you will have 100% first shot stopping power (FMJ or HP) :D. I love rifles they are much better then pistols :D.
 
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Great Choice, Opie!

You have probably picked the best "house gun" you could have chosen. It happens to be the top choice of Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch--and his credentials are without peer.

You have, however, paid WAY too much for ammo. No deal, just don't do it again. Stick with the 55 gr. FMH (Check out AR15.com) and don't fret about penetration. The .223 round does not live up to its reputation for this.

Have fun and practice a lot.
jack
 
For home defense I would choose a 12g shotgun loaded with tactical 00, or my 45acp (loaded with JHP). I understand concerns of overpenetration, but you have to stop the BG if you hit him.

Congrats on the new ar. IMHO the best defensive round is M193, which is a FMJ 55gr high velocity round. You want a "military" high velocity round so the bullet will fracture as it passes through tissue, which increases tissue damage. One of the best is Win Q3131A (made in Isreal) and available at www.ammoman.com (I hear his supply is running low) for $199/1000. For plinking I would get a less expensive brand of the same round.

Good luck.
 
Home defense? You've got yourself an urban assault weapon there!:D Really though, I'd kick it down a couple of notches. A shotgun is probably going to be more than enough to do in your sasquatch crack head.
 
For the time being, just be happy with what you have--it will create pain and suffering quite nicely, thank you. Learn about the discount ammo sources. And has been said, stay with 55-grain stuff.

There are ads in shotgunnews.com, and I believe ammoman.com is still going. Cheaper Than Dirt has a website, and cheap ammo.

Right now, all manner of folks are laying in more ammo, worrying about either mobs in the streets (?) or the government getting all antsy about us nasty civilians getting ammo.

Like I tell my wife when she's about to go bonkers and add five more years' worth of sheets and linens from a discount-outlet mall, "Hey, they ain't gonna quit makin' that stuff!"

:), Art
 
Galyans has 3131A winchester 5.56 for 2.99 a 20 round box
with a 10 box discount of 10 % thats 134.50 for 1000

yee haw

run a search here on penetration

i posted some links to some tests that show 5.56 is OK fer indoor sasquatch patrol
 
Don't beat me up too bad since I don't have the reference data to back it up but.... Aren't more and more LE agencies going to the .223 carbine because with a frangible bullet it has less secondary penetration risks and greater one shot stops than the pistol caliber carbines and less recoil/greater comtrolability than the standard 12 gauge with OO buck? For that matter wouldn't the 12 gauge armed home defender be better eqquipped with 1 1/8 oz. of 8s instead of buck shot at room ranges since the shot charge acts more a a single projectile yet the smaller shot sizes limit the risks of secondary penetration?
 
If you go 55gr FMJ, get genuine M193. S&B 55gr is not M193 even though it's labelled as such.. It has a steel jacket.

If you go 62gr FMJ, genuine M855 also has proven terminal ballistics.

See
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/M193.jpg
http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/M855.jpg
for information on M193 and M855. Note the velocity.

Here is the ammo FAQ: http://www.ecis.com/~mraudio/AR15_Ammo_FAQ.htm

I wonder if BrokenArrow will pipe in?

For the time being, I have a mag or two of Hornady 60gr TAP, and some M855 and M193 to back it up.
 
I prefer SS109, but I am not worried about overpenetration. You should be fine with any 55 grain FMJ that you can find.
 
The 223 is the best assault rifle round out there right now. I prefer either Federals Tactical load or Hornady's 75 grain tap round.
PAT
 
Yep, the 55 grain 223 is a GREAT indoor round, and it's cheap. It tends to fragment after hitting a wall. Much better about overpenetrating than many pistol rounds.

As for ammo, if you order ammo online by the case (1000 rounds), you'll get it pretty cheap.
 
So much hype, so little truth. I have tested 5.56 and .223 ammo (there is a difference) in tissue simulant and typical home construction. Regardless of bullet or caliber, there is always an overpenetration hazard from missing the target. Shotguns loaded with buckshot are the worst based on statistics. Rifle and pistol rounds are bad due to sectional density and energy.

45 grain varmit HP's will most definitely expans and at close range and a center mass shot, will not usually penetrate the perp, especially 6' urban gorillias. M193 stuff will penetrate the perp but if fired from a full length barrel, will not penetrate a double sheetrock wall as the bullet is usually broken into two fragments, split at the cannelure.

M193 has a total penetration of 12-14" in standard tissue simulant at 20" barrel muzzle velocities. Fired from a 16" barrel, the penetration is increased to about 16" due to the bullet's lack of fragmentation.

The 45 grain HP stuff only penetrates 8" or so and the damage is quite severe.

If you must shoot, make it count unless you live in a masonry house.
 
I've heard that some of the "high-speed, low-drag" guys are using 75gr Hornady Match(!) in their 1:9 twist M4s. Apparently its similar to the ol' 55 grainers out of the 1:12 M-16s.:D I don't know how this differs from the TAP round...but I'd like to know.

Anyone else heard of this?
 
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