I need advice on new custom target rifle

E

Eppie

New member
Hi Guys,
I've been inching closer and closer towards buying a target rifle. This will be strictly to punch paper for fun.

Since my first rifle was an M16, I have a real bias towards pistol grips and external mags. I have been shooting a Savage 10 (.308) and learned about reloading precision ammo. So , I will be reloading My ammo.

I am considering a Rem 700 action chambered in 6BR . Here's a picture of the Eliseo chassis I'm thinking about using. Not necessarily in this color.

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Then there are the questions of who's barrel, twist, action, trigger, etc.... I have done a little research, but I'm sure there are things I haven't considered yet.

What do you guys think? Does anyone know what SLED means?
 
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Depends a lot on what kind of target shooting you want.

If its High Power then the AR is the way to go.

F-Class? Savage would work, as will the Remington

If precision rifle, then either of the two above would get you started.

I'd suggest sticking to the factory barrel, when its shot out, it means have enough rounds to determine where you want to go from there.

In reality, the difference between a good rifle and a not so good rifle is putting enough rounds down range learning to shoot the rifle.
 
The only sled I know of in connection with a target rifle is the Bob Sled or other single shot adapter for a repeating rifle.
The Eliseo High Power tube gun kit is listed as coming with two magazines and a SLED, so that is undoubtedly what is meant.
In NRA High Power, the 200 and 300 yard portions are shot rapid fire from the magazine, the 600 in slow fire, single loading. That is where the SLED comes in.
Their Long Range and F Class kits are single shots.
 
Well, target rifles as you call them usually have a specific purpose.

Mine has the express purpose of being built to take a 6pt bull elk at 600-800 yards.

It started as Savage 12 BVSS. I ordered it in 300 WSM. I ordered this gun because it has a 1:10 twist and 26" tube. Both are key to getting accuracy from 300 WSM with 190-210 VLD's. I thought these would be good for elk at long range. Also, Savage target rifles have a reputation for acceptable (<0.75" at 100 yd) accuracy. With bedding some improvement can be made and the laminate stock is a stable platform to start with.

Now it has been topped with a good Burris XTR 3-12 scope, TPS ring & bases, and a cuff sling.

My initial load development and practice has been quite rewarding. I brought it antelope hunting and it did it's job. I should have waited for a farther antelope! It was only 250 yards. That is a chip in with this rifle! It did teach me a valuable lesson. Even on a chip in, CHECK YOUR TURRETS BEFORE SHOOTING! I was a bit high due to turret moved by accident.

My whole point, what is the exact purpose?
 
I've been inching closer and closer towards buying a target rifle. This will be strictly to punch paper for fun.
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Hi Nathan,
My apologies, I guess I was a little to vague. I'm planning on punching paper at the 600 yards and 1,000 yard range. Hence the 6br.
FYI I did look at the Savage 12, it was my first choice, but unfortunately can't be modified to accept magazines, like this Savage.

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kraigwy,
You're right, my .308 with 175grain bullet will get there. But my reloads aren't as accurate as they should be because my case trimmer in not doing the job. There is a 12 week wait on a new one, so I'm thinking about what other toy should I add to my armory. A 6BR seems like an interesting project.

Jim,
Thanks for your reply. It makes sense. Someone did mention a block that fits in the mag well for single shots.
 
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While space guns are cool, I think I would rather build on a good lamanite or fiberglass stock of BR pattern or Tactical pattern depending on how I leaned.

If price is no object, I would drop the Rem or Savage base gun idea and base it on a custom action like Sturgeon, etc with a Kreiger or Lilja tube.

If money were an issue, Savage makes several OOTB guns which are very close.

Something to think about on ALL Rem base guns is the bolt head is never perfectly normal to the chamber. Upwards trigger pressure and bolt looseness cause this. Most customs have this slightly, but I think Nesika has a real design fix and most others are accurate enough. Savage with the moving bolt head is one of the better designs, but obviously machining accuracy is not that of the customs. Many people like Rem builds because you hand a gunsmith $300-$500 to get it on par with the Savage!!!

Regarding chambering 6 BR is fine, but 6.5x284 Lapua and 300 WSM should give you slightly better bullet choices.

Your 308 with top notch glass would be a great place to start, then rob the glass off it when you go to a dream gun. Not sure how a case trimmer is keeping your accuracy from at least being fun at 1000 yards. Have you looked at the Wilson? It is the only one I know which is datumed right. The case is a net fit to the outer surface and then you trim the mouth normal to that, which is reall how the gun holds the case.

I would try Sierra or Berger 175's with the bullets seated to -0.010". That should be close. Some guns obviously shoot better closer or further away.

Also Lapua 308 cases fired in your gun should be best for an accuracy foundation. If you don't neck turn, Forster's die set with Ultra Seater is a great place to start. Make sure you tune your FL die to be like fired -0.001" should bump and confirm bolt close.

Well, that's enough for now.
 
6BR is good, but I would look at 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55 Swede or 6.5x284 with emphasis on the Creedmoor.

Excellent High BC bullets with enough weight to have good momentum to 1000yds
 
Nathan said: I would drop the Rem or Savage base gun idea and base it on a custom action like Sturgeon, etc with a Kreiger or Lilja tube
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Nathan, Thanks for suggesting Sturgeon, but after looking at their web site I don't find a 6BR option and their chassis with a pistol grip seem heavy.

Also Lapua 308 cases fired in your gun should be best for an accuracy foundation.
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I also agree with your recommendation on the Lapua brass. I know the road that I travel leads to Lapua. I fired a couple of thousand of the Federal GMM rounds and saved the brass before I started reloading. I thought I would use them to learn precision reloading. I have started turning their necks on a Gracey neck shaver. That has improved accuracy substantially. When I feel that my reloading skills have advanced enough I will probably switch to Lapua brass.

I would try Sierra or Berger 175's
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Just last Tuesday I shot my first 50 rounds with the 175 Sierra MK. They seems to like about -0.012 off the lands best. You are right on the money.

Not sure how a case trimmer is keeping your accuracy from at least being fun at 1000 yards. Have you looked at the Wilson?
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I am using the Hornady Case Prep Center, it is a good tool, but not a precision tool. The neck is not trimmed square. There is a 3-4/1000 difference from one side of the neck to the other. Some people are pretty adamant that it is what is keeping me from getting "one hole" groups. I am certain it is not helping. I have looked at the Wilson and almost bought it, but I finally decided on a Giraud case trimmer. Unfortunately, there is 12 week wait on those. So, I wait.

precision_shooter said: 6BR is good, but I would look at 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55 Swede or 6.5x284 with emphasis on the Creedmoor
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precision_shooter, thanks for your suggestion. I started out thinking about the 6.5x284 but after some discussion with some of the guys at the range they told me that I would only get about 700 rounds out of a barrel. Right now the waiting time on Krieger barrel is around 9 months. They suggested I look at 6BR because I'd get about 3,000 round life out a barrel. Not only that the brass for 6BR is much more readily available. The 6.5x284 seems pretty scarce and costly. I have also considered the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5x55 Swede, but after some deliberate consideration of the various performance/cost ratios I've decided that 6BR is pretty hard to beat for punching paper at long range.
 
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Eppie, the .308 Win's a good choice as it's got 4 times the barrel life of a 6.5x.284. Have it chambered to SAAMI specs with a standard neck; no tight neck needed.

And keep those Federal cases for 20 or so reloads. You can easily get that many by full length sizing and setting their shoulders back .001" or so.

I'd use a 1:11 twist barrel and use 175 to 190 grain Sierra or Berger bullets.

Regarding the action choice, Win 70's will end up shooting bullets just as accurate as an expensive BAT or Sturgeon action. They're near 3 times stiffer than the Remingtons and a lot more maintainable and reliable, too. They do need to be properly epoxy bedded in a conventional stock for best accuracy. And square up the bolt and receiver face to the chamber axis; that's all the truing that's needed.

If you must have a detachable magazine, then a tube gun's the best choice. And make sure all the magazines end up with the rifle having the same zero for each one. Detachable magazines are notorious for causing zero changes unless only the very best systems are used. The Tubb 2000 and Eliseo versions have the best accuracy record with their DBM's.

If you plan on shooting NRA long range matches, you're only allowed to load one round at a time. You don't use the magazine anyway.
 
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Eppie, contact Lester Bruno if you need a barrel "right now." If you seek a known barrel burner, chamber 2 barrels at the same time. When the first goes south, install the second.

Nothing wrong with your choice of the 6BR. There are arguably better cartridges, but you can be competitive and have a whole lotta fun with the 6mmBR, or 6 Dasher, which is the 6BR with a blown forward shoulder for a bit more capacity. If really in pursuit of an excellent longer range 6mm cartridge look at the 6XC.

I chose the 6.5x47, and if e'er it returns from the stock maker I will be able to shoot it, maybe sometime this year.
 
I have the Eliseo R5 in 6 XC and it has been fantastic for OTC, MRP and long range. 6XC brass is a little hard to find at the moment, but 22-250 is an easy conversion. Very accurate with an 8 twist Kreiger and throated properly for heavier bullets for long range.
Jim is correct about the sled. It comes with 2 5 rd mags and a single shot sled that does not actually hold a round, but rather gives a platform to align and direct the round into the chamber.
I Like the 6BR and it is capable at LR distances, but the XC gives a little more powder capacity. If you plan on mid range distances up to 600 yds the BR is hard to beat. Moving out toward 1000 yds you can't go wrong with the XC, 6.5s and 308. 6.5s may have a rep for shorter life, the .308 has a proven reliability record
 
Bart, your advice is always appreciated, but I was hoping you'd also say something about the 6BR and 6XC, although I still appreciate your comments on the .308 and the Federal brass.

stubbicatt said: contact Lester Bruno if you need a barrel "right now."
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Thanks for your response, but I'm a bit risk averse and I have learned that haste makes waste, and that patience is golden.

oryx said: I have the Eliseo R5 in 6 XC and it has been fantastic for OTC, MRP and long range. 6XC brass is a little hard to find at the moment, but 22-250 is an easy conversion. Very accurate with an 8 twist Kreiger and throated properly for heavier bullets for long range.
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oryx, I'm glad you responded. I am still on the fence regarding the 6XC. My main concern is that being a relatively new cartridge the tools (dies, trimmers, case holders, etc... may be hard to find, especially in this environment. I have no experience with conversions and I would prefer go Lapua 6BR brass that is available, than 6XC and have to do conversions. This is really at the core of my choice for 6BR. I don't want to wind up like DeLorean car owners.

The people at Pierce Engineering are guiding me towards a Jewel trigger (with safety???) and Krieger (1:8 twist) just as you stated.

Who's action did you use in your rifle? Who put it together for you? Any other advice? Any pics?
 
The conversion from 22-250 to 6 XC is simply running the 22-250 brass through the 6XC die and load as normal. Then shoot and fire forming is done. Very simple and fire formed loads are just as accurate.

Your comment on dies and tools is understandable, but in my opinion well worth it an something you won't want to get rid of. Mine is on a trued 700 action with a CG Extreme trigger (Jewell makes an excellent trigger as well). A good friend and gunsmith chambered! threaded and installed the barrel. I own the reamer.
I think you would be happy with what Pierce would provide - that was my original direction, but I had the action and access to a gunsmith.

I don't know if you are planning on open sights and sling or scope and rest, but I have a set up for both and it is excellent. Gary Eliseo fron CSS and Dave Kiff from PTG were also great resources to talk with, extremely friendly and helpful.

I will try to get some pics
 
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The reamer was for clambering the barrel blank. If you are having Pierce chamber and install your barrel, it is not necessary. I do not have he safety on my gun. The choice may depend on what you are using the gun for. If it is going to be used for hunting and general use, I would say it is worth it. In the competitions I shoot the gun is only loaded at specific times and then unloaded and shown safe with a chamber flag.
 
Eppie, I didn't say anything about the 24 caliber (6 millimeter) rounds as they work decent at 1000 yards only in calm winds shot in heavy benchrest rifles in free recoil virtually untouched by humans when fired.

The long range problems the 6's have are almost as bad as what the US Army dealt with trying to get 5.56mm NATO ammo to shoot as well at 1000 yards as the 7.62 NATO rounds do; they finally gave up and went to the 30 caliber round.
 
Bart B. said: I didn't say anything about the 24 caliber (6 millimeter) rounds as they work decent at 1000 yards only in calm winds
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Bart, you are right on the money. Something has been rumbling in the back of my mind and just didn't percolate until you said it. Here in Houston it is flat and there is always at a minimum a breeze from the gulf in the summer. In the winter months the winds pickup and the direction changes depending on the high and lows. I think I'm getting bum advice based on scarcity of brass in the 6XC. I also keep coming back to the fact that the .308 is a great caliber. I'm going to think about it some, but if I really want a new rifle, I might just get another .308
 
If yoiu're not going to shoot sanctioned competition but just put holes in paper, then use whatever makes you smile the most. This is the best emotional choice.

If you're going to shoot matches and want the best scores, then get and learn to use what the best scores are shot with.

What's your objectives?
 
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