I need a non-assault urban defense rifle

J

jdthaddeus

New member
I was looking to get a Carbon-15 but I am afraid that it will be outlawed somewhere in the future because it has a pistol grip and is "scary" looking to the ignorant emotional masses. So, I am looking for an urban defense rifle that does not have the features of an "assault rifle" (pistol grip, black color, scary looks and all that BS that makes people compelled to outlaw them).

Some ideas are:

-Springfield M1 or Scout
-Semi-auto shotgun
-Steyr Scout (expensive, but maybe worth the wait?)
-other Scout concept (Savage?)
-Lever action rifle (Marlin or Winchester .357, .44 or 30-30)


Obviously, money is not the primary issue. I am not rich, but I am willing to save up for better items if necessary. I just want whatever works best and whatever is going to last. A tricked out semi-auto shotgun might be the best plan, but those can easily add up fast, so it is not the cheap alternative, and I have no idea what brand or model to go with, so opinions on that would be welcome. Some of my other defense shotguns have fallen apart, so quality and reliability are high on my list.

More ideas and criticisms are welcome.
This gun will run the role of home defense, trunk gun, urban defense etc.
 
SKS carbine. Wood stock (no evil pistol grip or flash suppressor), medium sized cartridge (so you can carry lots of ammo and faster follow up for second shot), no detachable magazine (so you don't have to spend half a paycheck to buy one), reliable (so it works when you need it to), inexpensive (reasonably priced and less than a Winchester or Marlin lever action or a Ruger Mini30) and just plain fun.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
Bill Ruger has managed to keep his semiautos off of the ban lists

to the detriment of the other manufacturers

dZ
 
Gary has a very valid suggestion. The ammo is cheap and allows for lots of practice.

You mention both rifles and scatterguns..

In rifles I really like lever guns in .44 Mag. You can get great handling and performance with the .44 Special loads. Or step up a bit to the true magnum. Be aware that, due to the stock design, magnum rounds have a kick to them.

I have had a .357 lever gun, but as I have not chrono'd any loads in it, I'm not sure that it gets the added speed that the .44 gets. That being said, they work well also.

The cowboy gun look will be as PC as any firearm could be, for as long as we're allowed firearms.

Scatter guns are a very viable choice. I would recommend a Remington 870 express in either 20 or 12 guage. Even my non-gun owning friends understand that shotguns are "good guy" guns.

Best of luck,

Giz
 
Thanks so far, this is a good start.

Do I get any more capacity out of the .357 Magnum over the .44 Magnum lever gun?

The SKS is out right away because they have become the bane of anti-gunners. I am looking for a PC defense rifle/carbine/shotgun, and the SKS is right out of that list due to the fact that they have become as well known as the "AR15" by the ignorant masses who hate "assault rifles". If anything gets banned, the SKS will be soon. California is already started on banning SKS's and has even begun confiscating ones that people legally registered.

Also, PLEASE let's not get into the Steyr versus Savage Scout versus rifle etc argument. I see a lot of that on this board and I would hate to have this thread wander (no one has so far). I am just looking for the best most reliable gun to fill the role and be PC. There are many ways to fill that role, and I would love to hear good discussion about different opinions on how to accomplish that goal. The goal is that of an urban defense, trunk gun, PC battle rifle, home defense type thing.

Thanks, and keep it coming!

[This message has been edited by jdthaddeus (edited December 20, 1999).]
 
First choice - M1A in.308 caliber. Inexpensive to shoot practice with and more fun to shoot and more accurate that any rifle has a right to be.
Second choice - Ruger Mini 14 or Ranch Rifle. Not the tack driver the M1A is but accurate enough for the job and good PMI 20 or 30 round mags are available. Hard to beat for fun to shoot and there is a lot of inexpensive ammo available.
Just my $0.02 worth. YMMV :)

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OJ
NRA LIFE MEMBER
Gun control is a steady hand and hitting with the first shot.
 
Just looked. The .44 Mag round is about 1/8" longer than a .357. So, I'd guess the magazine capacity is either the same or one round more in the .357 lever action...

I'll never holler about how the Mini 14 is super extra splendiferous, as some do about the AR 15. But, my three or four Mini 14s have all functioned quite well, and had usable accuracy. Ruger made some 10-round magazines for the Mini 14, which I prefer over the long bananas. It would be easy to make a 5-round mag into a 10, with some simple metal-cutting and welding.

And, of course, the Mini 30 is an option...

For rifles, the lever action is probably the most PC. The suggestion about the Remington 870 is good--and one of the world's top shotgunner counsels against all the "add-ons", other than the extended mag.

Or, find a somewhat beat up Model 12; those with a Cutts Comp are ugly but cheaper. The only caveat is to go ahead and replace the firing pin, the only weak point I know of.

FWIW, Art
 
Try M1 Garand in 30-06 or .308 -- "PC" looking, powerful and does load eight rounds. On the down side, enblocks take a little practice, but no worse than stripper clips.
 
My vote would go for the Mini-14.
Keep 3 or 4 extra, loaded 20-round magazines handy. Not a tack driver, but LOTS of fire power, AND, it goes BANG every time you pull the trigger.

OPEN OR OUT



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Ralph in In.
 
If you feel you must be politically correct, my solution, is a Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum.
Add a good receiver sight and a recoil pad. Install a ten round nylon cartridge carrier on the buttstock. (This is one complete reload, mime in themagazine tube and one in the chamber) This will sole a great many urban problems.
 
What about a Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1? Robust, reliable, and with relatively inexpensive supply's of ammo. AND the rifle itself is not to expensive either...Best luck...Mike
 
A nice M1 carbine can still get 15 and 30 round mags really cheap, a nice mid power scope and heat sheild.. I own one accrute and a very good gun. Ammo is kinda expencive but does not cost an arm or a leg.

hope this helps.

keep the M1 carbine alive guys it was a very good gun!!!! =)
 
If you're looking to stay away from semi-autos because of political reasons, probably the two best rifles for you have already been mentioned here. Either a lever action .44 mag(9 round capacity) or an Enfield bolt action(because of the 10 round mag) would fit the bill perfectly, be more generally acceptable, and neither is that expensive. While there are many other possible choices, you couldn't go wrong with either of these rifles. Hope this helps.

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With my shield or on it...
 
jd..

Who are you trying to impress? You're not planning on displaying it on the next 4th of July parade are you? So, who cares what you own in your private arsenal? If you ever have to use a weapon for defense, you'll want it to look "bad" to any perps who might otherwise think you're carrying something impotent.

My advice, re-read the 2nd Amendment. Put stress on the part that says "shall not be infringed". And then go get the biggest baddest mother of an "assault weapon" your money can afford. It's your 2nd Amendment freedoms that allow you to keep and bear arms, remember. Don't be hypnotized into believing you have to comfort someone's political correctness and buy a pretty little poodle gun.

PS: Buy it from a private individual. Keep out of the paper trail.
 
i am with Paul on this issue

Buy the meanest looking civilian rifle you can find!
why?
Because there is nothing wrong with owning a black rifle.
Once you invest in one, you will care more deeply about the infringment of our rights.

The Patriots did not find something else to drink. They dumped the tea in the harbor!

Buy a gun designed in the last 40 years.
Do not let sheep mediate the teeth you wear.

dZ
 
If you want something without the detachable magazine, you have several choices. M1 Garand, FN49, SVT40, Hakim, Rashid, or (for those who must be different) the AG42B and 1941 Johnson (consipicuous consumption).

Most of these rely on stripper clips, but are still pretty easy to feed once you get the hang of it. The FN49 is my personal favorite. 8mm ammo on strippers is cheap and relatively available right now. The SVT's magazine is the most readily detachable, but at $100+ a pop, that's not much of a consideration.
 
Of the abovementioned guns, FN49 and its derivities are likely most practical (ammo/rliability/price) but remember that 8mm surplus is all corrosive and non-corrosive Mauser ammo is $$$. I am not sure how easy it is to clean that FN49...
 
Why not a slide and semiauto Remington 30-06 with 4-round flush magazine. You could get a couple of 10-round replacement mags for it for emergency use (make sure you test those). Still, hunting rifles may overheat faster than military designs...
 
The curio and relic SKS's are still perfectly legal and require no registration in CA. A few days ago I saw a bunch of C&R Romanian SKS's with bayonets for sale at Turner's. As long as you don't try to convert it to accept detachable mags, you should be fine.

Personally, my "trunk gun" is a Polish M44. I figure if it's stolen, no major cash loss, the thief might even leave it, and if it was discovered, I'd have a better chance of playing it off than with a self-loader. It's surprisingly accurate and powerful to boot.
 
There's lots of long guns on the "never to be banned - you get to keep them forever" list because they're "sporting rifles." Sure. I'm with the coupla above that say "get what you want." Nothing's PC to the banner-types.

Attempting to purchase something now with the idea that it's PC & won't be touched is a fool's errand. "They" are coming for all of 'em & won't stop till they're stopped.

That said, it all goes back to "what do you want the rifle to do." You gonna be a sniper & be as PC as possible?, get a bolt (tons of good calibers) w/a good scope ('course, these are evil sniper weapons & may be on the next-to-ban list). Firepower & totally PC? I'd go Rem 760 (pump), 1.5X? scope & a few mags - semis are just so "nasty" & besides nobody needs one. ;)

I'd pick a caliber that you may be able to resupply from any expected occupying force.
 
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