madmo44mag
New member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ROFLMBO^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I love My Hornady Lock n Load
- Thread starter THEWELSHM
- Start date
Talk about a classic hijack...I've had my LNL AP since June 2013. I had previously loaded on a 1968 RCBS Rockchucker that I bought new. I now load all pistol on LNL. I am waiting on the Forster Co-Ax press now. But I would not get rid of my LNL. Have made many mistakes, mostly user, but the press now runs smoothly. I too have taken it apart trying to understand each process. I find myself resizing and decapping in one process, and then finishing with a second process. I like to examine my cases and clean the primer pockets before priming. I know that is not necessary but old habits die hard. I enjoy reading this thread because of the new ideas. Like building a better mouse trap. Hornady should listen to its users. 
I started off reloading 4 months ago with an LNL AP. The timing needed adjustment, but otherwise the press has been near flawless and I've run several thousand rounds of 9mm through it. Haven't touched the primer feed since I set it up. I will say I've changed out all the Hornady dies but the powder feed:
- Replaced the sizer/decapper with Lee. The Lee is much smoother and the primer never hangs up on the pin
- Replaced the Powder Cop with and RCBS lock-out die. I didn't like having to take my focus off the shell plate, required with the Powder Cop.
- Added a Lee FCD - never have a round fail the plunk test
- And, I'm going with an RCBS Micrometer Seater - my Hornady Seater with Micrometer tends to drift
- Added LED lighting and an ergo lever from Inline Fabrications - I could never crank out 500-1000 rounds at a sitting with the infernal "ball" lever
Brotherbadger
New member
I've been eyeballing one. Once I get my college loans paid off, I plan to pick one up.
So that's what a troll is! A quick look at my posts will show that I tell it like I see it. If that differs from how you see it, then I'm a troll.
Tolerances are what is called for in a blue print of the part. If you call for tolerances of +- .005 , then keep it in the middle, the parts will always fit and work. IF that's what you want. I suspect Dillon's tolerances are more like
+-.002 And kept in the middle with a much finer finish tolerance.
Hijack? Saying something to make somebody who may be about to buy one to think on it for awhile, before spending a lot of money on something he will have to tinker with before it runs right.
Hornady is famous for putting out poorly designed reloading presses, not tested, and poorly machined parts.
Then there's the gimmick of the Lock N Load bushings. A solution to a non existent problem. IOW, you invent a problem, then magically produce a solution/fix for it. A shortcut to simply screwing a die into a threaded hole. It introduces more chances for imperfect machining to make for a poor fit for the dies.
OH, I forgot, the LNL does NOT have a removable tool head! AND no rack or other storage device for the dies with bushings on them that will no longer fit in the boxes they were sold in. Simple fix. Take those bushings, lock-tight them in the machine, then screw the dies in like they should be.
Dillon's 650 tool heads slide in with the dies still set from the last time you used them. Then they make a holder for the tool head, shell plate, and locator buttons.
cryogenic419
New member
I've really come to love this press and could not imagine loading on anything else. Once you understand all of its quirks and how to get around them and how to adjust the various things that make all the difference between a smooth running press and getting a hiccup every few rounds. Know that it is a mechanical device and needs a little cleaning and lube every so often.
With that said some things that I'd love to see changed on this press or included when/if they come out with a new version.
The priming system seems to give a lot of folks issues, perhaps spend a bit more time in the R&D stage and make the thing fool proof. Also, don't have a priming system that over time destroys the area right beneath it thereby forcing folks to come up with homebrew fixes. This had to have been spotted early on when developing the machine.
A higher station count without quadrupling the price. If you like to seat and crimp in separate operations, or due to your choice of seater cannot seat and crimp with the same die along with bullet feeder dies and powder check dies...somethings got to give. I elected to ditch the powder check die but I am watching every case to make sure. Sure would be handy to be able to have enough stations to use it all.
The spent primer tube is a nice feature. I think what could make that system even better is a way to screw a 20 oz pop bottle or something similar onto there to catch the primers rather than a tube dangling to the collection container. May not even have to come factory standard on the press, at least offer it as an upgrade part for $10.
With that said some things that I'd love to see changed on this press or included when/if they come out with a new version.
The priming system seems to give a lot of folks issues, perhaps spend a bit more time in the R&D stage and make the thing fool proof. Also, don't have a priming system that over time destroys the area right beneath it thereby forcing folks to come up with homebrew fixes. This had to have been spotted early on when developing the machine.
A higher station count without quadrupling the price. If you like to seat and crimp in separate operations, or due to your choice of seater cannot seat and crimp with the same die along with bullet feeder dies and powder check dies...somethings got to give. I elected to ditch the powder check die but I am watching every case to make sure. Sure would be handy to be able to have enough stations to use it all.
The spent primer tube is a nice feature. I think what could make that system even better is a way to screw a 20 oz pop bottle or something similar onto there to catch the primers rather than a tube dangling to the collection container. May not even have to come factory standard on the press, at least offer it as an upgrade part for $10.
madmo44mag
New member
Mavrick79 - yep; some time a good thread can just de-rail.
I love my Lnl. I like the bushing system other than the cost for guys like me that load multi calibers. But having a die system that once set is plug and play is great.
I came from the old Pro-jector, and the priming system on it was ok once you learned the little quirks. Same with the LnL. Once you know what to and not to do the system runs fine.
I like the shape and bend of the handle on the old Pro-Jector better but heck I have been loading on that press for around 20 years. I could heat and bend the handle on my LnL but I'll wait and see if I get use to it.
I like Lee dies and Hornaday accepts Lee dies with not problem.
The mew shell place design is good. On the old Pro-Jector you had to set tension on the shell plate to get it to index properly.
The LnL just snug it down and if needed adjust the cam pawls.
The old PJ press cam pawls was a real PITA to adjust.
Over the years I have owned Lee, Dillon, RCBS and Hornaday presses and always come back to Hornaday.
It is kinda like the Ford vs Chevy debate I guess!
I love my Lnl. I like the bushing system other than the cost for guys like me that load multi calibers. But having a die system that once set is plug and play is great.
I came from the old Pro-jector, and the priming system on it was ok once you learned the little quirks. Same with the LnL. Once you know what to and not to do the system runs fine.
I like the shape and bend of the handle on the old Pro-Jector better but heck I have been loading on that press for around 20 years. I could heat and bend the handle on my LnL but I'll wait and see if I get use to it.
I like Lee dies and Hornaday accepts Lee dies with not problem.
The mew shell place design is good. On the old Pro-Jector you had to set tension on the shell plate to get it to index properly.
The LnL just snug it down and if needed adjust the cam pawls.
The old PJ press cam pawls was a real PITA to adjust.
Over the years I have owned Lee, Dillon, RCBS and Hornaday presses and always come back to Hornaday.
It is kinda like the Ford vs Chevy debate I guess!
Haters gonna hate. I'm still enjoying my purchase.
Last night, I was loading 12ga on my Load-All. I really need shells for an upcoming match. But the LNL AP was calling me over with its sweet siren song. It's really hard to resist the lure of cranking out more .380 on my shiny new press.
Last night, I was loading 12ga on my Load-All. I really need shells for an upcoming match. But the LNL AP was calling me over with its sweet siren song. It's really hard to resist the lure of cranking out more .380 on my shiny new press.
Dragonflydf
New member
I load a large number of calibers on my LnL, and just to -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- off the likes of snuffy, I did no mods to my press, the only change was to add a extra rail to hold a extra tray. Oh and snuffy, dies with bushings fit in the Hornady box, with room enough for the shell plate, a powder measure insert, and I keep a couple of pieces of brass in the boxes as well.
I wanted to buy a dillon, I had cash in hand and went to their booth at the NRA convention when it was here in Phx, I went by there every day of the show, they were always talking to people who all ready owned one and did not seem interested in helping those that were interested. I went by the Hornady booth one time and was shown the LNL progressive, they answered all my questions and what made the deal even better was the free bullet promotion. 1000 free bullets, I looked at it as if I was buying the bullets and the press was free.
From 30 Mauser to 45-70, my Hornady does them all with no problems.
I wanted to buy a dillon, I had cash in hand and went to their booth at the NRA convention when it was here in Phx, I went by there every day of the show, they were always talking to people who all ready owned one and did not seem interested in helping those that were interested. I went by the Hornady booth one time and was shown the LNL progressive, they answered all my questions and what made the deal even better was the free bullet promotion. 1000 free bullets, I looked at it as if I was buying the bullets and the press was free.
From 30 Mauser to 45-70, my Hornady does them all with no problems.
schmellba99
New member
Survey says.......WRONG AGAIN!!!
But here is some nice parting gifts for your participation!
Why do you constantly gravitate towards any thread mentioning the LNL to spout off your thoughts (which are pretty much repeated like a broken record) on how crappy it is and how awesome and more superior you are because you own something blue? I can only surmise that it is peen envy, or something along those lines because you seem to need - dare I say crave - the justification that you own a Dillon.
Shut up huh?
Isn't it great to live in a country where can still express opinions even ones not embraced by others? But others still can say "shut up" when they don't like what I and others say?
Like they were going to be the only ones to read this? I certainly didn't want to diss on those that already have the machine. They know it's shortcomings, and the fixes it needed. I have no need to feel superior, just want to give both sides of the story.
Really? Oh I just went and looked, the "new" boxes are thicker that those from many years ago. I see they would have room for the bushings.
Ever hear of the Hornady apex progressive,(and manual advance), shotshell loader? No? It's not surprising, it's Hornady's failed attempt to bring out a loader to replace the 366 which they inherited when they bought the Pacific reloader company.
Many of the parts were made of very weak plastic, mainly shell guides and the shell plate. It worked fine as long as there was no undue force applied to those weak guides. Along comes bubba and his weak minded temper, the thing would break in many places. I have to say Hornady was good about replacing parts no-charge, but they sent out more parts than they sold new loaders. It has since been discontinued.
The new dimension dies leave a lot to be desired. They copied lee's design of the sliding decapping pin/spindle, but they didn't EXACTLY copy it, it didn't work. Now they have quietly added a thread structure to the spindle to keep it in place . Like the shell plate on the LNL AP, it was flawed in the shell ejector area, a re-design has solved that. Why not test things before releasing them, get it right, not let us test them AFTER we buy it. Ever feel like a guinea pig?
Testing for a company can be--is expensive. Many times it means producing an item, sending it to some people that can and will use it, then report on what worked, what didn't, and what needs to be changed.
Isn't it great to live in a country where can still express opinions even ones not embraced by others? But others still can say "shut up" when they don't like what I and others say?
Like they were going to be the only ones to read this? I certainly didn't want to diss on those that already have the machine. They know it's shortcomings, and the fixes it needed. I have no need to feel superior, just want to give both sides of the story.
Really? Oh I just went and looked, the "new" boxes are thicker that those from many years ago. I see they would have room for the bushings.
Ever hear of the Hornady apex progressive,(and manual advance), shotshell loader? No? It's not surprising, it's Hornady's failed attempt to bring out a loader to replace the 366 which they inherited when they bought the Pacific reloader company.
Many of the parts were made of very weak plastic, mainly shell guides and the shell plate. It worked fine as long as there was no undue force applied to those weak guides. Along comes bubba and his weak minded temper, the thing would break in many places. I have to say Hornady was good about replacing parts no-charge, but they sent out more parts than they sold new loaders. It has since been discontinued.
The new dimension dies leave a lot to be desired. They copied lee's design of the sliding decapping pin/spindle, but they didn't EXACTLY copy it, it didn't work. Now they have quietly added a thread structure to the spindle to keep it in place . Like the shell plate on the LNL AP, it was flawed in the shell ejector area, a re-design has solved that. Why not test things before releasing them, get it right, not let us test them AFTER we buy it. Ever feel like a guinea pig?
Testing for a company can be--is expensive. Many times it means producing an item, sending it to some people that can and will use it, then report on what worked, what didn't, and what needs to be changed.
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Ah the old Dillon vs Hornady debate lifts its ugly head again.
Yes, Dillon makes a fine machine.
However when I first went progressive press shopping quite a few years ago I knew I wanted an auto-indexing press with five stations. The Dillon 650, which fit the bill, cost a good $100 more at the time than the Hornady L&L. That helped me make the decision.
The whole idea behind the Lock & Load bushings is for quick changes of calibers. Change your shell plate, pop in your dies on their bushings and you are ready to go. With a Dillon, you do quick changes between calibers by leaving your dies permanently mounted in a tool head. Each tool head costs $27.95 (MSRP). With a Lock & Load you can buy a ten pack of bushings for $59.24. Ten bushings is enough for 3 caliber changes. You do the math. The real killer is, for really quick caliber changes you are going to want a separate powder measure dedicated to each tool head. With the Hornady, all you need is a separate quick change powder insert for each caliber or standard load that you use. A L&L powder insert is much less expensive than a Dillon powder measure.
Do I love my Lock & Load? Of course I do. That's why I have two of them, one dedicated to large pistol primers, the other dedicated to small pistol primers. Did I mention I load a lot of different calibers; 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Special, 44 Russian, 38-40, and 38 Special so far.
I have never messed with the micrometer style of powder insert, I don't want to be continually readjusting when I change calibers. I keep separate powder inserts preset to the charges I use most often with the different cartridges. Here are a few of them. When I change calibers, I change the shell plate, pop out the current dies, pop in the new ones, and pop in the appropriate powder insert. I throw and weigh a few charges as a sanity check, then I am off and running.
Does the L&L have its difficulties? Of course it does. I don't care what brand you use, primer feeding systems are always the weak point of any press. No matter what you do, they are a Rube Goldberg solution and they must be kept scrupulously clean or problems will result.
My first press had the old plastic based primer feeder. It was a nightmare, the plastic base would break if you looked at it crosswise. So Hornady redesigned it a few years ago to the current design, including the inner tube which has to be set 'just so' to keep it feeding. My solution was to wrap a bit of tape around the bottom of the tube to keep it in place. With two presses I don't change primer sizes at all, so I don't have problems with the tube shifting.
Might as well mention my 'Gravity Assist' device. Primers sometimes have a tendency to get stuck in the vertical tube of the feed mechanism. My solution was to add a 'Gravity Assist' device to the top of the primer stack. A piece of hobby shop brass rod about two feet long. I use .187 diameter for large pistol primers and .156 diameter for small pistol primers. The weight of the rod keeps primers feeding down nicely. Guess what? Last time I looked, Dillon supplied a plastic 'Gravity Assist' device with their presses. Just don't drop the brass tube on top of the stack of primers, bad things might happen. (knock on wood).
Might as well mention one other foible of the L&L. The casting is made of aluminum (so is the Dillon). While aluminum is plenty strong, it is soft. The primer insert dohicky that shoves the primers up into the primer pocket works by bottoming out on the casting when the handle is all the way up. Eventually the steel dohicky will wear a dent into the casting. When the dent gets deep enough, primers will no longer seat all the way.
Solution: a large steel fender washer glued to the aluminum base so that the primer dohicky bottoms on it, rather than the casting. You can use a quarter to, but the fender washer is tougher than a quarter. I used rubber cement to glue the washer in place. Yeah, Hornady should probably provide a threaded steel insert at this spot.
Did somebody mention a pop bottle catching spent primers? Not a pop bottle, but it works. Actually, RCBS supplies a jar like this with their presses.
I don't use any of the modern dodads on my L&L presses. No bullet feeders or case feeders for me, I still do that by hand. You do it long enough, you work out the rhythm. And I don't drop powder through the belling station either. For me, Station One is decap and resize, Station Two is belling, Station Three is powder drop, Station Four is intentionally left empty so the old eyeball can inspect each case to make sure powder dropped, and Station Five is Seat and Crimp. Yes, I always seat and crimp in one step, no big deal if you take the time to set up the die properly.
Did I mention I love my L&Ls enough to have two of them?
Yes, Dillon makes a fine machine.
However when I first went progressive press shopping quite a few years ago I knew I wanted an auto-indexing press with five stations. The Dillon 650, which fit the bill, cost a good $100 more at the time than the Hornady L&L. That helped me make the decision.
The whole idea behind the Lock & Load bushings is for quick changes of calibers. Change your shell plate, pop in your dies on their bushings and you are ready to go. With a Dillon, you do quick changes between calibers by leaving your dies permanently mounted in a tool head. Each tool head costs $27.95 (MSRP). With a Lock & Load you can buy a ten pack of bushings for $59.24. Ten bushings is enough for 3 caliber changes. You do the math. The real killer is, for really quick caliber changes you are going to want a separate powder measure dedicated to each tool head. With the Hornady, all you need is a separate quick change powder insert for each caliber or standard load that you use. A L&L powder insert is much less expensive than a Dillon powder measure.
Do I love my Lock & Load? Of course I do. That's why I have two of them, one dedicated to large pistol primers, the other dedicated to small pistol primers. Did I mention I load a lot of different calibers; 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Special, 44 Russian, 38-40, and 38 Special so far.
I have never messed with the micrometer style of powder insert, I don't want to be continually readjusting when I change calibers. I keep separate powder inserts preset to the charges I use most often with the different cartridges. Here are a few of them. When I change calibers, I change the shell plate, pop out the current dies, pop in the new ones, and pop in the appropriate powder insert. I throw and weigh a few charges as a sanity check, then I am off and running.
Does the L&L have its difficulties? Of course it does. I don't care what brand you use, primer feeding systems are always the weak point of any press. No matter what you do, they are a Rube Goldberg solution and they must be kept scrupulously clean or problems will result.
My first press had the old plastic based primer feeder. It was a nightmare, the plastic base would break if you looked at it crosswise. So Hornady redesigned it a few years ago to the current design, including the inner tube which has to be set 'just so' to keep it feeding. My solution was to wrap a bit of tape around the bottom of the tube to keep it in place. With two presses I don't change primer sizes at all, so I don't have problems with the tube shifting.
Might as well mention my 'Gravity Assist' device. Primers sometimes have a tendency to get stuck in the vertical tube of the feed mechanism. My solution was to add a 'Gravity Assist' device to the top of the primer stack. A piece of hobby shop brass rod about two feet long. I use .187 diameter for large pistol primers and .156 diameter for small pistol primers. The weight of the rod keeps primers feeding down nicely. Guess what? Last time I looked, Dillon supplied a plastic 'Gravity Assist' device with their presses. Just don't drop the brass tube on top of the stack of primers, bad things might happen. (knock on wood).
Might as well mention one other foible of the L&L. The casting is made of aluminum (so is the Dillon). While aluminum is plenty strong, it is soft. The primer insert dohicky that shoves the primers up into the primer pocket works by bottoming out on the casting when the handle is all the way up. Eventually the steel dohicky will wear a dent into the casting. When the dent gets deep enough, primers will no longer seat all the way.
Solution: a large steel fender washer glued to the aluminum base so that the primer dohicky bottoms on it, rather than the casting. You can use a quarter to, but the fender washer is tougher than a quarter. I used rubber cement to glue the washer in place. Yeah, Hornady should probably provide a threaded steel insert at this spot.
Did somebody mention a pop bottle catching spent primers? Not a pop bottle, but it works. Actually, RCBS supplies a jar like this with their presses.
I don't use any of the modern dodads on my L&L presses. No bullet feeders or case feeders for me, I still do that by hand. You do it long enough, you work out the rhythm. And I don't drop powder through the belling station either. For me, Station One is decap and resize, Station Two is belling, Station Three is powder drop, Station Four is intentionally left empty so the old eyeball can inspect each case to make sure powder dropped, and Station Five is Seat and Crimp. Yes, I always seat and crimp in one step, no big deal if you take the time to set up the die properly.
Did I mention I love my L&Ls enough to have two of them?
Crunchy Frog
New member
I've had an LNL-AP for a few years now. When I decided to go progressive, I wanted a five station auto indexing press and my final choice was between the LNL-AP and the Dillon 650. I got my press on sale for about $400 and I got the free (after paying shipping) bullets, all of which are sitting on my shelf because most of my pistol ammo is with lead bullets. Eventually I added a casefeeder; when you compare the cost of the press plus the casefeeder the price gap between the LNL-AP and the 650 narrows.
I do think that caliber changeovers are less expensive with the LNL. The difference adds up the more calibers you load.
The priming system is very sensitive to any grit, spilled powder, etc. It seemed to help to polish the parts well and to clean it frequently. Mine seemed to "break in" after a while and runs more smoothly now.
I have not had problems with timing or with parts not fitting. The only issue I had was that the expander die from my .38/.357 Hornady die set would not put a sufficient bell on .38 Special cases even when set at maximum depth. I sent that die back to Hornady with some sample unprimed, sized and expanded cases and they fixed it promptly. The casefeeder is a little "fiddly" but has worked reasonably well for me. The weak link is the microswitch in the top of the drop tube; the first one failed but again Hornady replaced it.
One criticism I have is Hornady's use of steel parts that are prone to rust. It is not a big deal but it seemed like they cheaped out a little.
I do think that caliber changeovers are less expensive with the LNL. The difference adds up the more calibers you load.
The priming system is very sensitive to any grit, spilled powder, etc. It seemed to help to polish the parts well and to clean it frequently. Mine seemed to "break in" after a while and runs more smoothly now.
I have not had problems with timing or with parts not fitting. The only issue I had was that the expander die from my .38/.357 Hornady die set would not put a sufficient bell on .38 Special cases even when set at maximum depth. I sent that die back to Hornady with some sample unprimed, sized and expanded cases and they fixed it promptly. The casefeeder is a little "fiddly" but has worked reasonably well for me. The weak link is the microswitch in the top of the drop tube; the first one failed but again Hornady replaced it.
One criticism I have is Hornady's use of steel parts that are prone to rust. It is not a big deal but it seemed like they cheaped out a little.
) nothing I have rusts and I live in FL. My loading room is my garage..schmellba99
New member
Except that's exactly what you did, exactly what you came here to do, and knew exactly what you were doing the entire time. Why is it that you suddenly appear on almost every thread with "Hornady" in the title and never manage to actually talk about Hornady, only how superior you must be because you paid a lot of money to make sure the Dillon family can maintain playing around on their 50k+ acres of fun land outside of Scottsdale?
So, basically you spouted off and didn't know what you are talking about? Shocking.
So a single less than stellar product makes a company? Funny, didn't know that's how it worked. But in this case the markets did what markets are designed to do - and that is that a less than optimal product really didn't last. Amazing.
The zip spindle wasn't exactly "quitely added". But if you feel better about yourself, have at it. Their dies are solid dies - better than anything Lee produces and on par with RCBS dies.
The LNL was an upgrade from the Pro-Jector, which had a tempermental spring ejector. Amazing - a product is improved upon once certain areas are identified as needing improvement. I"m sure Dillon has never, ever, ever, ever, ever in the history of their product development done the same thing. Nahhh, they must design stuff perfectly from the beginning or something.
It is expensive, and I"m sure that every company does it. But not having a product on the market is also expensive - sometimes a company may need to push production to get a product out the door knowing that changes may be coming. And a good company will usually make those chagnes as soon as they can. I'm sure your blue paint has never needed an upgrade. That's why Dillon never got beyond their 450 model, right?