NedreckSavant
New member
Because if they don't we the people will rise up and stike them down with the wrath and fury of the heavens? No? no bloody revolution? anyone? sheesh, what's on tv...
"I listen to the commanders on the ground"...right.
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The way I hear it (unconfirmed so take it for what it's worth) they've figured out that Rumsfeld doesn't know what he's doing so they just ignore him. I'd personally rather have a known incompetent in the job than another idiot they think knows what he's doing. They're a little slow to pick up on stuff like that.
Rumsfeld is the Secretary of the DOD, The only man with control over him and the military is the President. Rumsfeld isnt in charge of a Fortune 500 Company. He is in charge of the military... incompetency means that people die, lose limbs, ect.....
I suppose if you were the owner of a business and were afraid that the next employee you hire would be more incompetent, you would let that employee screw up your business?
There are plenty of good men around who could replace Rumsfeld.
I suppose if you were the owner of a business and were afraid that the next employee you hire would be more incompetent, you would let that employee screw up your business?
There are plenty of good men around who could replace Rumsfeld.
NedreckSavant
New member
jesus, one of the most powerful military commanders of the most destructive and awesome army's in the world...having to be ignored due to being crazy. I'm sorry moderators for trying to give credence to armed revolution but...
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These generals are nobodies...
...compared to Smedley Butler.
A legendary USMC major general, he won two Medals of Honor fighting for American capitalist interests in this hemisphere. In the 30's, he retired and went on a national campaign against war, and wrote "War is a Racket", his thesis on how the military only served to fight for caplitalists rather than in defense of the nation.
The media would love to have a guy of his stature and his orientation today. Rummy would be swinging from a rope with that kind of gravitas behind the anti-war machine.
...compared to Smedley Butler.
A legendary USMC major general, he won two Medals of Honor fighting for American capitalist interests in this hemisphere. In the 30's, he retired and went on a national campaign against war, and wrote "War is a Racket", his thesis on how the military only served to fight for caplitalists rather than in defense of the nation.
The media would love to have a guy of his stature and his orientation today. Rummy would be swinging from a rope with that kind of gravitas behind the anti-war machine.
Eghad,
No, I wouldn't let him continue screwing up my business. I'd tell him to sit there and don't touch anything.
Yes he is, but he's the civillian figurehead of a self-sufficient military. If his higher-ups (chief of staff, pres, and veep) tell his subordinates to ignore him, his incompetence doesn't matter.
If I were the owner of a business and picked somebody like him to run anything important....I'd want somebody else to pick his replacement.
No, I wouldn't let him continue screwing up my business. I'd tell him to sit there and don't touch anything.
Of course there are. Do you trust this gang to find one?
I am not trying to change the subject by my rant here. Rummy is just like all the rest of the politicions and all of them in both parties have become traitors by not defending our borders. It seems odd to me that we bitch about who is in charge of DOD when the rest of the country is given away to mobs of illegals. What are we fighting for in Iraq if the country is given away?
What makes a politicion turn bad? When the war started all including the democrats were behind our troops and our leaders. Today there is maximum effort by the democrats and the media for us to lose this war. Thus the attacks on Rumsfeld.
While we argue about Rumsfeld another 5 million illegals are comming to ruin your helath care and keep wages depressed and sell drugs to your kids along with filling 30 percent of the prisons. They are criminals and don't follow the law and are destroying our borders, language and culture. What are we fighting in Iraq for if the damn Politicions are giving away America
Nothing else matters because if we have no law then the fight is for nothing. If we have no borders then we are no longer America and it is time to bring the troops home. No one else needs to die for a bunch of illegals to come here. Bring the damn troops home while they can still have a job when they get here.
What makes a politicion turn bad? When the war started all including the democrats were behind our troops and our leaders. Today there is maximum effort by the democrats and the media for us to lose this war. Thus the attacks on Rumsfeld.
While we argue about Rumsfeld another 5 million illegals are comming to ruin your helath care and keep wages depressed and sell drugs to your kids along with filling 30 percent of the prisons. They are criminals and don't follow the law and are destroying our borders, language and culture. What are we fighting in Iraq for if the damn Politicions are giving away America
Nothing else matters because if we have no law then the fight is for nothing. If we have no borders then we are no longer America and it is time to bring the troops home. No one else needs to die for a bunch of illegals to come here. Bring the damn troops home while they can still have a job when they get here.
and the chorus goes on
NOBODY does dismissive better than Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. When confronted with an uncomfortable truth, he has a way of brushing it off with a brusque one liner.
"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war,'' was one of his classics.
A war gone awry has a way of encouraging a depressing view of its leadership. Rumsfeld cannot so easily dismiss the rising chorus of condemnation from retired generals who have called for his resignation. As Army Maj. Gen. John Riggs told National Public Radio last week, Rumsfeld has fostered an "atmosphere of arrogance" at the Pentagon.
The nation has paid a heavy price for Rumsfeld's arrogance, including strategic miscalculations that have contributed to the quagmire in Iraq, even if the defense secretary won't acknowledge the word. "I don't do quagmires," he once said.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/16/EDGNSGU2OB1.DTL
So it keeps going till he quits, he won the war but can't win the peace. God have mercy on us.
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NOBODY does dismissive better than Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. When confronted with an uncomfortable truth, he has a way of brushing it off with a brusque one liner.
"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war,'' was one of his classics.
A war gone awry has a way of encouraging a depressing view of its leadership. Rumsfeld cannot so easily dismiss the rising chorus of condemnation from retired generals who have called for his resignation. As Army Maj. Gen. John Riggs told National Public Radio last week, Rumsfeld has fostered an "atmosphere of arrogance" at the Pentagon.
The nation has paid a heavy price for Rumsfeld's arrogance, including strategic miscalculations that have contributed to the quagmire in Iraq, even if the defense secretary won't acknowledge the word. "I don't do quagmires," he once said.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/16/EDGNSGU2OB1.DTL
So it keeps going till he quits, he won the war but can't win the peace. God have mercy on us.
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NedreckSavant
New member
Let's not forget about the first time we all got to wrap our lil minds around the differences between 'known unknowns' and 'unknown unknowns' Classic!
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The context I know of re "listen to the commanders on the ground" is when to scale down or when to scale up. Commanders on the ground are more into tactical than strategic.
I would expect Army generals to be unhappy, if Marines are used far beyond their strike force role. Special forces and SEALs seems like a way for the other services to get a piece of the action, both for the soldiers and for the commanders.
It seems from my distance that Iraq isn't stable enough to have large numbers of infantry grunts wandering around getting blown up. The numbers are supposed to come from Iraqi brigades.
I would miss Rumsfeld, because he handles the press so well. He does well in Congressional hearings too. That is an important part of the job. No surprise if they would go after him or welcome a chance to do so.
Rumsfeld is almost 80. That could be used at any time for reason to retire. I will be concerned only if Sen. John Warner turns against him.
I would expect Army generals to be unhappy, if Marines are used far beyond their strike force role. Special forces and SEALs seems like a way for the other services to get a piece of the action, both for the soldiers and for the commanders.
It seems from my distance that Iraq isn't stable enough to have large numbers of infantry grunts wandering around getting blown up. The numbers are supposed to come from Iraqi brigades.
I would miss Rumsfeld, because he handles the press so well. He does well in Congressional hearings too. That is an important part of the job. No surprise if they would go after him or welcome a chance to do so.
Rumsfeld is almost 80. That could be used at any time for reason to retire. I will be concerned only if Sen. John Warner turns against him.
After Afganistan, Rumsfeld was considered quite the deal. Same with the quick whipping of the Iraqi Army.
Now, after some tough slogging in Iraq, his name is Mud to the sunshine patriots.
I guess it is to be expected, what with our short attention span, need for instant gratification, and lack of understanding of our own history.
Now, after some tough slogging in Iraq, his name is Mud to the sunshine patriots.
I guess it is to be expected, what with our short attention span, need for instant gratification, and lack of understanding of our own history.
NedreckSavant
New member
jfruser, thank you for tempering our heated bashing with those insightful words. You're totally right, everyone did like him when things were well, it's just things haven't been going so well and some potentially credible people have cited him as the reason why. (and therefore we BASH! and bash hard!)
Everyone's mistake going into this particular was was in not realizing how flat on its *ss Iraq was after 30 years of fascist government. The economy was destroyed before we arrived. The infrastructure was in deep disrepair before we bombed around it. Basic services didn't exist before we rode into town. Now because we live in a world where media is spotty in its representation of reality we can get distorted views of history.
Yes, Rummy and his leash-holder made mistakes. Yes, the actual plan worked out ok. Yes, there were problems in the transition from conquest to occupation. Yes, the civil affairs guys were a second thought. I think the biggest problem was in not realizing how bust up the Iraqi economy was before we went in and evidently bounced rubble. And that is a direct result of having pathetic human intelligence in the country. And that is a direct result of certain political and ideological decision made by the previous administration. And those decisions were set in motion 30+ years ago after the Watergate fiasco. Bottom line, it is gratifying to club Rummy and his leash-holder. Both deserves everything coming their way, but if we really want to do it right we have to get into ancient history and correct the serious mistakes made back then. Slamming current leadership may ventilate one's spleen so one feels nice and fresh, but it does absolutely nothing to fix the current mess and ensure it doesn't happen again.
Yes, Rummy and his leash-holder made mistakes. Yes, the actual plan worked out ok. Yes, there were problems in the transition from conquest to occupation. Yes, the civil affairs guys were a second thought. I think the biggest problem was in not realizing how bust up the Iraqi economy was before we went in and evidently bounced rubble. And that is a direct result of having pathetic human intelligence in the country. And that is a direct result of certain political and ideological decision made by the previous administration. And those decisions were set in motion 30+ years ago after the Watergate fiasco. Bottom line, it is gratifying to club Rummy and his leash-holder. Both deserves everything coming their way, but if we really want to do it right we have to get into ancient history and correct the serious mistakes made back then. Slamming current leadership may ventilate one's spleen so one feels nice and fresh, but it does absolutely nothing to fix the current mess and ensure it doesn't happen again.
Iraq and it religious factions are the major problem. These guys have been fighting each other before the birth of our nation. Britian controlled the region for years and couldnt find a solution. What made us think that hey we will kick thier butts waltz right in and Make everything ok in a few years? Bush got his democracy in Palestine...when it wasnt what he wanted he grabbed his football and headed for the house. Now Iran is cutting in on the action in Palestine.
I will give Bush credit for realizing we are addicted to oil even if it was years too late. You cant rule your own destiny if you have to depend on others.....as long as we let others influence our energy markets, manufacturing and trade deficits...we will be slaves to the dictates of other countries.
I will give Bush credit for realizing we are addicted to oil even if it was years too late. You cant rule your own destiny if you have to depend on others.....as long as we let others influence our energy markets, manufacturing and trade deficits...we will be slaves to the dictates of other countries.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
It is well documented that estimates on the occupation were ignored by the Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz team.
The question is whether the war in Iraq advances the interest of the USA. Saving the Iraqis from Saddam is a nice side effect but we are not in the business of busting every tyranny on the planet. That is BS rhetoric to explain why we went particularly to Iraq.
We could nail Syria or Saudi Arabia or pour troops into Dafour. Why don't we if you buy the 'democracy' rhetoric.
Hitting Saddam was to enhance our position in the world. Has it? That's the question, not whether one country was chose for the magic democracy injection.
Saying that GWB and his crew screwed this up, doesn't mean you have to abandon your political values. Unfortunately, I find many folks feel that you must support incompetents if they spout your own beliefs. That is not sensible or moral, IMHO.
Supporting the leader despite failures in performance is an unfortunate consequence of our politics.
The question is whether the war in Iraq advances the interest of the USA. Saving the Iraqis from Saddam is a nice side effect but we are not in the business of busting every tyranny on the planet. That is BS rhetoric to explain why we went particularly to Iraq.
We could nail Syria or Saudi Arabia or pour troops into Dafour. Why don't we if you buy the 'democracy' rhetoric.
Hitting Saddam was to enhance our position in the world. Has it? That's the question, not whether one country was chose for the magic democracy injection.
Saying that GWB and his crew screwed this up, doesn't mean you have to abandon your political values. Unfortunately, I find many folks feel that you must support incompetents if they spout your own beliefs. That is not sensible or moral, IMHO.
Supporting the leader despite failures in performance is an unfortunate consequence of our politics.
Why Do I blame Rumsfeld....
because he asked for and got the authority for himself and DOD as the sole authority over rebuilding Iraq after the war.. Said he didnt need help from anyone. Did not want help from the State Department nor Colin Powell.
If he asked for sole responsibility he should get the blame.
However, Rummy didnt appoint himself himself either....and his boss says Rummy is doing a great job.
because he asked for and got the authority for himself and DOD as the sole authority over rebuilding Iraq after the war.. Said he didnt need help from anyone. Did not want help from the State Department nor Colin Powell.
If he asked for sole responsibility he should get the blame.
However, Rummy didnt appoint himself himself either....and his boss says Rummy is doing a great job.