"I listen to the commanders on the ground"...right.

N

NedreckSavant

New member
So should we put ole Rumsfeld out to pasture or what? Also does anyone know why the half-dozen 'retired' generals retired? (the ones calling for his resignation/firing) I'd figure it have been pretty good reasons considering most american generals don't just retire like flies while a war's still going. Sounds to me like they couldn't mutiny so...Would it be a fair statement to say that by continuing to have someone like rumsfeld running things, more american people will die than if he stepped down now/get fired today?
 
Generals are just politicions in the military. They all have parties just like you and I and it isn't unusual for them to seek political office after retireing. Colin Powel for example or Dwight Eisonhour.

Media will do what ever it takes to get Rumsfield as he always is in their face. Doesn't make him any good of course but he is better than Ted Turner:D

It isn't just Rumsfield, the whole government is corrupt. All of them. The country is headed down quicker than I thought as the illegals march and our government sits on their hands.

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If Wesley Clark is any indication of the level of intellegence of Generals...big deal, the guy who pumps my septic tank thinks he should go too.:)
 
He deserves worse

Rumsfeld clearly can't handle his duties as Defense secretary. While he's fully qualified to make decisions regarding force structure and funding, he's clearly not in a position to handle strategic decisions. He was a fool to think he knew better than Shinsecki what force structure was necessary to achieve control of Iraq.
OTOH, it's not like he's operating independently. He has his orders from Bush (even though they're inept) and he must follow them.

Nedreck,
Who do you suppose Bush might replace Rumsfeld with? Would he be an improvement?

Model25,
Yeah! Support the troops!

Pipoman,
Let's pit you against Clark on the field of battle against Clark. I say he'll kick your a$$.
 
Hard to believe that a "savant" would ask a question based on such an ill-informed predicate. You really think that six generals' retiring over a five-year period is unusual? You have any idea how many generals there are in the military and how many retire in a given year? These are rhetorical questions, of course, as it's obvious that you DON'T have a clue about the retirement numbers of generals. :cool:
 
Pippman
Let's pit you against Clark on the field of battle. I say he'll kick you a$$.
Click to expand...

Clark was on of the "perfumed princes" that David Hackworth was always critcal of. He got into his positions by political manuevering and kissing the right butts, not by his military prowess.
When he was running for the Democratic nomination for president hearing him speak told me everything I needed to know about him, and validated Hackworth's criticizims of him. Clark is an a$$. Too bad the taxpayers have to pay him a military retirement pension until they shovel dirt on him.
 
Pipoman,
Let's pit you against Clark on the field of battle against Clark. I say he'll kick your a$$.
Click to expand...

Were you paying attention to the primaries during the last campaign?

He ran one of the stupidest presidential campaigns in the history of stupid campaigns.

Have you caught his most current act as military adviser on FOX News. Seems he has completely changed his take on military issues since he left CNN.

As for playing Battleship against him, :rolleyes:
 
GEN Zinni was appointed by President Bush as a special envoy to the middle east, and a former CENTCOM Commander. He followed GEN Schwarzkopf into that job and was followed By GEN Franks.

Rumsfeld was the man who fired GEN Shinseki and the Army of the Secretary for telling Congress that it would take more than 150,000 to pacify and help rebuild Iraq.

MG Swannack commanded the 82nd Airborne in Iraq. the areas under his control included Fallujah and Ramadi. He was offered the job as G3 for Central Command but turned it down for retirement. He was also a critic of the Army's deployment scheduling.

MG Eaton was the man who started the rebuilding of the Iraqi Army. He criticized the fact that the way we were training the Iraqi Army and security forces were wrong. Before that assignment he was the Commandant of the Infantry School.

LTG Newbold was the JCS G-3 who was privy to the war plans of the administration and planning for the invasion of Iraq. He retired four months before the invasion. He was a critic of the administrations war plans.

MG Batiste was the commander of the 1st Infantry Division. He was offered a third star to return to Iraq. He was also the military assistant to Paul Wolfowitz The Assistant Secretary of Defense...the no. 2 man in the DOD behind Rumsfeld.

GEN Tommy Franks was a shoo in for the top Army position or for Chairman of the JCS yet he retired. Why does a man turn down a promotion that would be the pinnacle of his career?

I would think some folks would read up on these people before calling them just politicos. All of these gentleman were involved with the war in Iraq. Three were ground combat commanders in Iraq.

I have said that since 2004 Rumsfeld should be fired and replaced. He has fought this war on a budget which initially had shortfalls of body armor and vehicle armor for our soldiers. When my unit deployed in 2003 our deployment orders said we were to be issued Interceptor Body Armor. Since we were Reservists we got Vietnam Era Flak Jackets. The purpose of fighting a war is to destroy the enemies will to fight and his capability to fight. I dont understand what part of that Mr. Rumsfeld doesnt understand. He chose to go in with underwhelming force instead of overwhelming force. As my grandpa would have said **** or get off the pot.
 
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Some information on mandatory retirement of general officers.

Like the other commissioned officer ranks, Congress limits the number of General Officers that can serve on active duty.

Active Duty General Officer (Flag Officers) - DOD Totals:
O-7 = 439
O-8 = 278
O-9 = 124
O-10 = 34

The mandatory retirement age for all general officers is 62 (this can be deferred to age 64 in some cases). Under the law (10 USC, Sec 635), an officer who has been promoted to O-7, but is not on the recommended list to O-8, must retire five years after promotion to O-7, or 30 years of active duty service, whichever is later.

An O-8 must retire five years after being promoted to O-8, or 35 years of service, whichever is greater (10 USC, Sec 636).
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Let's see here...
Clark dealt with hostile dictators, armed insurgency, sectrian violence and got it all locked down without losing American lives. How's your boy Rumsfeld look in comparison to that?
The "Rumsfeld doctrine". Heh :barf:

I do like Clark. I don't agree with him on all issues, chiefly guns, but you'd be hard pressed to find somebody with more credibility on national defense.
But he's never gonna be president. He's not liberal enough to make it past the Dem primaries and he's not conservative enough to make it past the Republican primaries.
I suspect you're just hatin' on him 'cuz he's a Dem and had the nerve to say bad things about the current batch of fumblenuts you call an administration.

Run him on an independent ticket with Ron Paul and they've got my vote.
 
What do these generals know about war when compared with a political appointee with the military background of a man like Rumsfeld. Just look at his military history - he was a Navy pilot from 1954 to 1957, and then served as a reservist until 1975. His vast military experience exceeds anything these retired Generals have done.

In the interim, the ship of fools sails on....
 
Nation building is wrong no matter who is in charge, armies should kill their
opponent and then withdraw until that happens we all lose. Why should we
try to change Iraq and how do you accomplish that, it would be necessary
to kill everyone over the age of 10 and start over. You cannot control a
country of that size with 130,000 troops...:( As a vietnam vet I thought
perhaps we would learn, seems not.
 
Some information on mandatory retirement of general officers.
Click to expand...

When you are on a retired list you are subject to recall to active duty. As an enlisted Retiree I can be recalled back to duty to up to age 70. Retired pay is kind of like paying retainer pay.


GEN Macarthur served in the Army from 1898-1937 for a total of 39 years about the age of 60. He was recalled to Active Duty in 1941. He retired again in 1951. I think he would have been around 71 then.

Mandantory retirement really doesnt mean anything if the Army needs you.
 
Mandantory retirement really doesnt mean anything if the Army needs you.
Click to expand...
Sure, but some general officers use the mandatory retirement date to plan for post-military employment rather than waiting to see how much they are loved on their MRD.
 
There are many possible answers to why generals retire; six are in the news now for complaining about Rumsfield.
 
rivers-what was my ill-informed predicate? Asking whether or not rummy should be 'dealt with', or by not providing adequate background on some generals (that I was INQUIRING about). I made no statement as to their reasoning, I only knew 2 things about them: They served in iraq but have since decided to STOP, and have asked for the replacement of someone they collectively deem a threat to the safetey and security of our boys 'over yonder'. A half dozen generals retiring isn't what had my interest, it was a half dozen with the same message. Besides, now that things have been 'mission accomplished' for a couple of years now, I don't see why more aren't retiring...

As for my handle, it's an oxymoron. Besides, i believe it's what you want rather than what you have that makes one a 'savant', furthermore, someone like eghad has the right to tell me how the cow ate the cabbage on some generals...you? just hush.
 
So the question I have is who got these generals together to make this statement. Did they all just meet one day and say "hey let's go after Rummy" or do they want his job? The gathering for the news media had to be arranged and their statements had a purpose, to further bring down this administration would be my guess. Who profits by that?

25
 
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