I just wanted to do my laundry!

Fisticuffs can easily be life threatening, even if he's a little guy. Anyone can do a martial arts effective move or even just get in a (un) lucky punch. You just can't tell. Doesn't mean you have to shoot them, just that you might need to. Certainly don't rule out the possibility.

And I'm sure I seen that guy do a martial arts gesture just before I shot him. I had to at that point, I'm no martial artist!

( never shot anyone in 20 yrs of carry, but came close a couple times and always fortunately found another way out.)
 
Whether we, the well informed participants of a gun forum, believe that one punch can kill or not is immaterial. What must be considered is whether the DA and/or the community where you live has the same belief. Time and time again it has been shown that the facts of a case do not matter. What matters is who and what the DA and jury believes. Facts do not win criminal cases. Facts can support your case, but they do not win by default. The only thing that wins a criminal case is convincing a jury from your community. Note I did not say "a jury of your peers".

A disparity of force is a perception, not an absolute. If there is a disparity of force percieved by the jury, you will have an extremely difficult time proving your life was in jeopardy. If you cannot prove your life/well being was in jeopardy, then your case for self defense is gone.
 
"As to being assaulted with only fists. We recently had 2 high school seniors get into a heated discussion at a party. 1 boy threw 1 punch the other went down. Before the night was over he died from that 1 punch (apparently he flinched as the punch landed and the combination of forces caused a whiplash effect). So is an assault with only fist cause for armed defense? I believe so."

Les
Can you provide some details regarding this? I would like to file this away for future reference. Any info would be great, report number, case number, city and state, aprox date and so on...

This is the kind of history that would be helpful in showing deadly force...
 
Xavierbreath, you make good points. I was being somewhat facietious and somewhat not. It is best not to shoot the guy.

I wonder how a jury would look at a guy who engaged in a fistfight for defense but did not pull his weapon? I expect he would receive extra charges for the arm but the jury may see the reasonableness and restraint.

In fact, 'would it' be reasonable to engage in hand to hand when carrying? The guy may disarm you and escalate the situation where there may not have been an escalation if it weren't for the presense of the arm. Hmmm.

No easy answers.
 
Last night I saw this new pepper spray device that mounts to the picatinny rail on a handgun, similar to a light. You draw and hose them with OC first before resorting to deadly force. It only takes one hand to operate too.

But I see how OC would have worked better in your situation. No one *really* wants to injure/kill someone else, despite how irate and threatening they may be. I bought my friend some OC as she works graveyard at a hotel and sees some really...interesting...people.
 
Heres a link
http://www.tcadvertiser.com/

I did a search for Bulla Haas
that brought up this story from WNEM TV 5 the local CBS affiliate



New Details: Tuscola County Teen Death

Written By: Sam Merrill

Edited By: Sam Licavoli II

Some witnesses say eighteen year-old Andrew Haas provoked the Cass City man who killed him with one punch at a party last fall, according to prosecutors. "Some blame Haas as being the instigator," said Mark E. Reene, Tuscola County 's prosecutor, who wants John P. Bulla sent to jail, not prison.

Bulla, twenty, who lives near Cass City, pleaded no contest Monday February 28th, to attempted involuntary manslaughter in connection with the Nov. 13, 2004, death of Haas, a Cass City High School senior who lived in Ubly.

A plea of no contest is not an admission of guilt, but is treated as such at sentencing. Reene said an "exhaustive investigation" by Tuscola County Sheriff's Department detectives Glenn Skrent and Patrick Woidan involved interviews with numerous witnesses. But the opinion of forensic pathologist Dr. Kanu Virani proved key to the case, Reene said. The punch that struck Haas in the head was not really characterized by Dr. Virani even as a violent blow, according to Reene. "It was simply the angle the blow came from, and the victim's reaction."

Reene said Virani's opinion is that Haas "was not braced for the blow" when he was punched at an outdoor party in Tuscola County 's Elmwood Township . "It was simply the reflex of the head and neck, due to the blow" that caused Haas' fatal injuries, Reene said. The prosecutor said Bulla didn't intend to kill Haas, though witnesses told police the two men had argued at the party before

"That night, the two went back and forth, verbally," Reene said. "Whenever you have a situation like this, you'll have witnesses with various alliances on the side of the victim and on the side of the defendant, and you have to sort through the bias to find out the truth." Bulla had been charged with involuntary manslaughter, which carries a maximum sentence of fifteen years in prison. But Reene allowed Bulla to plead no contest to the lesser charge, which carries a maximum sentence of fi

Reene plans to ask Tuscola County Circuit Judge Patrick R. Joslyn to sentence Bulla to no more than one year in jail, combined with a term of probation. The court hasn't set a sentencing date yet.
 
You did just fine in my opinion. Drawing your gun should always be the last resort. Jerks like that are usually harmless, just like to make a bunch of noise.
 
I think you did the right thing by having the gun available as a last resort, but excersing proper judgement and restraint and retreating from the area of conflict. Only advice I could give for the future is to contact local law enforcement and file an Incident Report/Criminal Complaint ASAP after it occurs.

More importantly though: you walked away alive and unharmed, which is the ultimate and ONLY goal of any confrontation.

-38SnubFan
 
I had a laundry room incident at my last apt. complex. I was living in Oakland and going to school at Berkeley. Anyways I found a crackhead trying to steal my clothes from the dryer. I startled him and he spun around and dove out the window (that he had called through) and ran down the block.
 
"Anyways I found a crackhead trying to steal my clothes from the dryer. I startled him and he spun around and dove out the window (that he had called through) and ran down the block."


to bad the laundry room was not on an upper floor...
 
The first thing that comes to mind is; what would you have done if he had made a beeline for you, and made a grab for your shirt? In otherwords, an "assault", but nothing that could be construed as an imminent deadly threat?
 
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