I just got my FFL license now what??
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Theohazard
New member
Then your FFL is doing it wrong. Your FFL is still going by the old rules on taxing transfers, but those rules changed when the new I-594 law went into effect in December 2014. Now an FFL doesn't collect taxes on any in-store person-to-person private transfers or on any transfers sent from an individual, whether the sender is in-state or out-of-state. That's the only good part of the new law. (Keep in mind that tax is still supposed to be paid by the person receiving the firearm, but they're supposed to pay that tax directly to the Department of Revenue; it's not supposed to be collected by the FFL.)cjwils said:
If your FFL is still collecting taxes on transfers sent from individuals, show them this:
http://dor.wa.gov/docs/pubs/specialnotices/2014/sn_14_firearms.pdf
"For tax purposes, I-594:
• Effective December 4, 2014, I-594 removes the requirement for firearms dealers to collect sales or use tax from the transferee on firearms transfers between unlicensed persons whether such transfers are in-state or interstate transfers.
• Keeps the requirement for firearms dealers to collect sales or use tax from the transferee on interstate firearms transfers by a licensed dealer."
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dogtown tom
New member
Anyone doing $5 transfers isn't engaging in the business, but engaging in a hobby. $5 transfers don't cover your expenses......unless you think things like alarms, insurance, utilities and your time are free.
If you think it's only a "phone call and handing someone a package" you have zero knowledge of what is actually involved in a transfer, much less what is involved in running a firearms business.
Good idea if you want to commit a Federal crime.
How do you know $15 is a viable transfer fee? It may be competitive or lower than the competition, but HOW THE HECK do you know if the OP can make a profit at that figure?
And a "tax stamp" isn't required.......a sales tax permit may be.
A "tax stamp" is what you buy from ATF to possess NFA firearms.
A sales tax permit is required in those states that charge sales tax on purchases or services. There is no sales tax on firearm transfers in Texas.
Nailed it.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Which can all be pretty reasonable if you set-up a shop specifically to do transfers instead of have a large retail operations. Not going to strike it reach, but there seem to be plenty of pensioners "keeping themselves in canvas" doing it. Keeping themselves in canvas" being how I refer to the most successful artists I personally know. Those who can more or less pay for their supplies out of their operations.
FrankenMauser
New member
Assuming that filling out a 4473 is involved, that's actually how my preferred local shop does business.
If there's a serial number on a firearm box that appears to be factory-sealed, they don't even open it.
95% of the time, I am the one that opens the box to verify that the label matches the actual serial number, while they're filling out their portion of the 4473. (Generally not applicable on used guns, unless they ship in the factory box.)
That could partially be due to the fact that they know that I know exactly what to expect for the shipment, whether it's new or used, that I know exactly how they operate, and that I use my CWP for identification.
But it's still, essentially, what happens when I buy a "sealed" firearm and have it shipped to my preferred FFL: A [4473, a] phone call, and handing me a package.
And they don't even, legally, have to make the phone call!
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
If the serial number is on the box they don't need to open it to log it.
Depending how many you are doing the 4473s can be a few filing cabinets or an office safe.
If all you are doing is transfers with no employees the additional record keeping is pretty simple. NO receivables, billing, etc. Not much more than for mowing lawns. The small transfer FFL seems to be a pretty simple operation.
Want proof? Look at some of the people running these small operations who manage to stay in business. Are you going to support a family of five off such an activity? Probably not. Are you going to do enough business to add a healthy supplement to a pension? Seems quite a few in my area are doing so.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Somebody needs to open it. The bound book asks for the serial number of the firearm, not the serial number of the box. Sure the number on the box is supposed to be the same as the number on the gun, but they don't always match.johnwilliamson062 said:
My point is that it's a little more than just one two-minute phone call & handing over a package.
It takes time, it takes paperwork, it takes secure storage, it takes records maintenance.
If you're a one-man operation & that's all you do, it still takes time, it still takes paperwork, it still takes secure storage, it still takes some form of record-keeping & maintenance.
If you're a shop, it takes employee time, in addition to all the rest.
Denis
It takes time, it takes paperwork, it takes secure storage, it takes records maintenance.
If you're a one-man operation & that's all you do, it still takes time, it still takes paperwork, it still takes secure storage, it still takes some form of record-keeping & maintenance.
If you're a shop, it takes employee time, in addition to all the rest.
Denis
Without any infrastructure, and without a customer base, your best bet might be to get some inventory that will move and buy a table or two at the next gun show. You're obviously going to have to pay to get your inventory and for table fees but that won't be as big of an investment as getting/maintaining a storefront and stocking it.
This will mean you won't have any more weekends because you'll be spending them at gunshows. It will also mean some travel unless you're in one of the large metropolitan areas that has a gunshow in easy driving distance most weekends.
You're going to have to figure out what to buy that you can sell quickly and at enough of a profit to pay for your expenses and to make it worth your while.
Be sure to hand out cards that have your business information and state your competitive prices for doing transfers. You can build a customer base this way, but it will be work.
carguychris
New member
Sage advice.johnwilliamson062 said:
It's not merely a matter of record-keeping mistakes because of non-matching serial numbers. There is also the matter of the shipper having placed a completely different type of gun into the box, either inadvertently or perhaps accidentally-on-purpose if you catch my drift.
This sort of thing can land a FFL in SERIOUS hot water if he is caught doing it repeatedly.Additionally, checking the serial number is a perfect opportunity to verify that an incoming used firearm is unloaded. Stuff happens.
CedarGrove357
New member
I live in Illinois sans Cook county and vicinity. I started working on my FFL in July 2015. Posted my application, got my business license, in December. I was told it would take me about nine months to a year to get my FFL from the time I put my application in. The end of January 2016 I had the BATFE sitting in my dining room. I had done my homework, I had anticipated their questions. Literally, one of the interviewers said to the other "why are we here, seems like he's interviewing us instead". My FFL was issued beginning of March.
Since then its been slow. Frankly, I am not complaining one bit. I've advertised, met with veiled animosity from local "good ole guys" and stalagmites of the business. It hasn't been all fun and guns. I've spent a considerable amount of time, building and money meeting what the wholesalers require before they grant you an account. You MUST prove you are a brick and mortar business. That means images of the inside and outside of your location, plus posted business hours. Not just a kitchen table. That means security systems, displays, registers, the whole lot. Also need a separate checking account setup for your business as most only do ACH withdrawals, no credit cards. And do not forget about insurance for your inventory and your business itself. They have their own criteria. LLC your business at least or you could be risking all you own personally as well as business related.
IF you get a couple of wholesalers to toss you a bone, all the better, but you will, I repeat, WILL be expected, by your customers, to compete with the likes of BUDs, et al. and online prices. I can tell you now, that what those guys buy guns for is not what you will see your price is as a lil guy dealer. Been there, done that, learned well.
Also be prepared for the BATFE to come to your home [if your business is incorported in your home] or business whenever they seem fit and peel through all of your records you must keep - 4473 paper docs, and your bound book, etc. They will also inventory your safe contents, I recommend keeping your personal and business inventory in separate safes altogether. If something comes up missing during an audit which should have been reported within 24 hours of discovery, the BATFE get itchy. you get cited for any infractions and they can take your license or other unpleasant actions. Having an FFL is not to be taken lightly like a drivers license.
I do NOT want to dash your dreams. Not at all. My whole point is that this process you ask about has been, in my experience, an arduous one. Rife with responsibilities that the government has imposed on all of us.
I hope the best of luck for you and welcome to the club!!!
Since then its been slow. Frankly, I am not complaining one bit. I've advertised, met with veiled animosity from local "good ole guys" and stalagmites of the business. It hasn't been all fun and guns. I've spent a considerable amount of time, building and money meeting what the wholesalers require before they grant you an account. You MUST prove you are a brick and mortar business. That means images of the inside and outside of your location, plus posted business hours. Not just a kitchen table. That means security systems, displays, registers, the whole lot. Also need a separate checking account setup for your business as most only do ACH withdrawals, no credit cards. And do not forget about insurance for your inventory and your business itself. They have their own criteria. LLC your business at least or you could be risking all you own personally as well as business related.
IF you get a couple of wholesalers to toss you a bone, all the better, but you will, I repeat, WILL be expected, by your customers, to compete with the likes of BUDs, et al. and online prices. I can tell you now, that what those guys buy guns for is not what you will see your price is as a lil guy dealer. Been there, done that, learned well.
Also be prepared for the BATFE to come to your home [if your business is incorported in your home] or business whenever they seem fit and peel through all of your records you must keep - 4473 paper docs, and your bound book, etc. They will also inventory your safe contents, I recommend keeping your personal and business inventory in separate safes altogether. If something comes up missing during an audit which should have been reported within 24 hours of discovery, the BATFE get itchy. you get cited for any infractions and they can take your license or other unpleasant actions. Having an FFL is not to be taken lightly like a drivers license.
I do NOT want to dash your dreams. Not at all. My whole point is that this process you ask about has been, in my experience, an arduous one. Rife with responsibilities that the government has imposed on all of us.
I hope the best of luck for you and welcome to the club!!!
Armorer-at-Law
New member
The OP must be a troll. First post ever on the forum, never bothered to reply to two pages of responses or a PM I sent.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
Would I assume the number on the box matches the gun? No. Did FrankenMauser already indicate that is how his FFL does not open his packages before a bunch of posts I interpreted to mean that meant they weren't filling out the paperwork were made? Yes.
My transfer FFL has a separate business that provides most of the overhead. If you are just doing transfers you don't need distributors. You can install your own security system. Your secure storage is not required to be a commercial safe. You can very cheaply build a "vault" with far more capacity. If you are doing transfers you are turning your secure inventory much faster and carrying very little in the first place. Additionally, no one knows what you have in your secure storage day to day, so it is not as good of a target.
If half one's business is transferring guns bought from buds how is one competing with Bud's?
Very few local FFLs seem to be able to purchase guns for the daily deal prices PSA lists. You don't have to be a genius to figure out you can buy those if you want to keep some minimal inventory. Surplus guns, etc.
I think the OP has a C&R. If he had any of the commercial licenses he would not have asked such a broad question as he would have had to answer aspects of it in his interview. Unless,possibly, if was piggybacking off another business like my FFL does. FOr instance, a coin shop already has almost everything in place the ATFE inspects.
My area is a bit of an oddity as there are quite a few able bodied 37 to 45 year olds with decent government pensions. Paying $6k or less a year in rent for a small store front in an old strip mall and throwing a few boutique businesses along with a low investment service is not uncommon. The used video game, sports card, stamp/coin, comic, etc. store that also does FFL transfers, UPS shipping,etc.
Does ATFE REQUIRE an FFL to have insurance? They may like it and request to see it, but I would be surprise if it is REQUIRED.
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johnwilliamson062
Moderator
True.
But, if you are charging $15 a transfer most people running it as a side service would still be happy if it takes 20 minutes and has $5 of overhead costs. I think those are reasonable numbers for some transfer specific services similar to what I described above.
But, if you are charging $15 a transfer most people running it as a side service would still be happy if it takes 20 minutes and has $5 of overhead costs. I think those are reasonable numbers for some transfer specific services similar to what I described above.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
In fact, according to his profile he logged off one minute after making his only post, and hasn't been back since.Amorer-at-Law said:
Frank Ettin
Administrator
I doubt this is going anywhere. If the OP returns and would like this re-opened, he can send me a PM.
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