I have been irresponsible

I have one question in regard to you setting the alarm, You stated, I believe that you normally put the car in the Garage, if this is corrct do you normally set the alarm on the vehicle once in your garage, if the answer to this is no, then I would have to chalk it up to a situation of established habit, not a act of carelesness, if any thing is at a direct fault here it would have to come to the reason that you were unable to put your car in your garage as you normally did??????????????
 
Good point. I was unable to put it into the garage because I had a new tool box in the way that I just bought and was going to put it together today.

I am a very forgetful person though. If I am not 100% trained in doing something, I can assure you that without writing a note to myself, I will forget to do it. :(
 
So the cops lectured you, huh? Jerks. Like cops have never had their own guns stolen! :mad: The chief of police in a mess of a town called Pahokee (here in FL) had his unmarked police car stolen from a Walmart, and when it was later recovered, several firearms were missing from it. Tell me again how the police are above reproach in matters of firearms responsibility. I've read enough stories about cops' kids accidentally killing themselves or others with guns the cop left around.


I'm sorry your gun got stolen, and that you're worried about it being used in crime.
You seem to have done what you should have done, i.e. report the theft with the proper documentation.

YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT OTHERS MIGHT DO WITH PROPERTY THEY STOLE FROM YOU.

The responsibility for their later criminal actions will be theirs alone. Would you feel responsible if they had stolen a baseball bat from your garage and gone and beat someone to death with it? Stole your car and hit and killed someone with it?

Please don't feel guilty. Who is to say that they wouldn't have come by a gun some other way? Who is to say that if the gun had been in your home, they might not have burglarized your home and taken the gun that way? Or if your car was locked and alarmed, they might not have broken the window, taken the gun, and made off before anyone responded to the alarm siren?

Not your fault. You are not the criminal.


-azurefly
 
On the other hand, any victims (or families thereof) of future crimes are sure to sue you in civil court for "providing" a gun to a criminal.
Click to expand...


Is there really anything to that?

I thought that the criminal act breaks the chain of liability!

If this were true, if someone stole my frying pan and beat someone to death with it, I could be sued for "providing" the "weapon" to a criminal? I don't think so.

Would it be any different if a person were beaten with a bat on the street, and had his CCW gun taken from him to be used in a later crime? "Providing" a gun to a criminal? I don't think that UNWILLINGLY letting a criminal have your gun is tantamount to "providing" him with one.


-azurefly
 
The only thing I would really worry about if I was you:

That you can prove forced entry to the car (as in they didn't use a coat hanger to open the door).

If you are unable to prove that, and the perp was a minor, some states/judges might try to construct that as leaving a firearm where a minor could gain access and employ the firearm illegally.


good luck. I hope you get it back.
 
He has a sworn affidavit to the police that he was the victim of a vehicle-entry theft.

I would think that stands in as "proof" of the theft, should he have to demonstrate it later.

You swear the affidavit; now someone would have to PROVE you LIED in swearing it out.


-azurefly
 
"I thought that the criminal act breaks the chain of liability!

If this were true, if someone stole my frying pan and beat someone to death with it, I could be sued for "providing" the "weapon" to a criminal? I don't think so."

Don't get me wrong; I understand and appreciate the concept of holding criminals responsible for crimes, and not victims. But remember, anyone can be sued for anything, and if the plaintiff gets the right jury he can win big or force a settlement.

In this case, just to play the Devil's advocate, I submit that someone would be able to make a reasonable argument that the gun was not stored properly, and that it should have been stored with more care than, say, a frying pan, because it is so easily used as a powerful weapon. Hell, the gun owner himself got on a world-wide shooting forum and declared "I have been irresponsible".

Here are some possible locations for keeping a firearm. In all cases, someone taking the gun would be stealing it, a crime. But decide for yourself at what point the owner could reasonably expect that his gun would not be stolen:

1) on the sidewalk in front of his house
2) on his driveway
3) on the seat of his car, doors wide open
4) in the glovebox, doors wide open
5) in the glovebox, doors closed but not locked
6) etc., up to "in a safe with a dobie tied to it"

Tim
 
Its not your fault that people steal.
But for insurance to cover the loss I think that it falls on the owner to be sensible about safe guarding against crime.
Leaving the doors unlocked may be seen as not being sensible.
 
Here are some possible locations for keeping a firearm. In all cases, someone taking the gun would be stealing it, a crime. But decide for yourself at what point the owner could reasonably expect that his gun would not be stolen:

1) on the sidewalk in front of his house
2) on his driveway
3) on the seat of his car, doors wide open
4) in the glovebox, doors wide open
5) in the glovebox, doors closed but not locked
6) etc., up to "in a safe with a dobie tied to it"
Click to expand...

I'd go with the next logical step, which is
6) in the glovebox (or other out-of-view area), doors closed and locked

At that point a forcible entry is required for a criminal to gain access and steal it. Not a difficult forcible entry, mind you...but a forcible entry nonetheless.

5) is close, though, as it requires clear criminal intent beforehand (trying doors to see if they are unlocked), rather than providing a clear target of convenience (wide open doors). Of course, even this only really applies if the state of the door locks is not clearly obvious to the casual observer (unlike, say, the old-school push-down/pull-up locks)
 
I have been informed that two criminal acts would sever me from being responsible in this case, unlawful taking of the gun and the act of using the gun. The fact that it was on private property and out of view, where the person would have to activly enter the vehicle and search it. It was in the middle console, so the person had to open the door and get inside to reach it.
 
I agree with JuanCarlos about your potential liability for the theft. I'm totally ignorant of your laws in PA but in Texas there is no way in hell your held remotely liable for some dimwit stealing from you and then using the item to do bodily harm to someone...even a firearm. Here, even if your vehicle is unlocked with all the windows down if a lowlife even so much as pokes a stick, piece of wire, rope or anything else held by him he is guilty of burglary of a motorized vehicle which is a 3rd deg felony. My son-in-law did the same thing two weeks ago. He left his pistol in the car, unlocked, and it was stolen. The only thing I could think of to ask him was what good is the pistol for "self-defense" if his "self" is in the house and his "defense" is in the car. I still await a response. For him the bad news is that his insurance deductable is 1% of his $150,000 mortgage. This means that a replacement is totally out of pocket for him. A sad lesson learned the expensive way I suppose, but hopefully learned just the same. Sorry for your loss and hope you can get a replacement soon.
 
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