I Fear That Armed Revolt Is Close.

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Donny - You're a winner!! The saw's in the mail. :)

BillX - Abe didn't guarantee victory. All he said is you have a constitutional right to give it your best shot(s). Who knows what might happen if there's a second time. Maybe it's going to be "the best 2 out of three or a 200 year time limit".

RKBA!
 
This thread goes in an interesting direction
I certainly agree that a certain tree needs to be watered but..
do you know where its headed.
When it gains steam this movement how far are you willing to walk it.
Are you prepared to shoot at your local policemen.
What that thought shocks you?
Better stop stocking up now then.
These will be the first people to oppose you.
A large group of armed men have gathered call out the swat we have a riot on our hands call in the all the men in blue all these people dont have carry permits..
they wont drop their weapons shoot on sight.
These men have been enforcing laws that have been written over the constitution for a lifetime and have been trained that such outward massived armed movements are to be responded to in kind and that your are nothing but a terrorist.
Law enforcement
government agents.
I hope Im wrong I hope the many that say theyll be right their with us in such a situation mean it and are prepared to throw down their badges and 'disobey the law' for a
drastic change.
Because to me the best thing for this country would be for most of the senate and congress to endure the traditional punishment for traitors.
We can even recycle and keep using the same rope.
www.ccops.org www.jpfo.org www.jbs.org



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"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
In considering hypothetical scenarios in far-off lands, have you all ever really pondered the latent power in a million scoped high powered rifles, fired one shot at a time? By independently acting patriots picking their own targets, and then disappearing back into their lives? One other aspect is that a "warning phase" is possible, as large ceramic insulators and transformer boxes become the most popular big bore targets, and the lights go out. If that did not send the message, then there are always the traitors and domestic enemies to consider. It would impossible to put a 500 meter security perimeter around even a tiny fraction of them. Hypothetically speaking.
 
This country runs on money, these politicians run on money, money is the lifeblood of modern america. Wanna know what brings them money? Information. Reach the point where you can get your information through redundant sources, you're a little safer, keep backups of your files, have your own sources of power(illegal in many cities I might add), and have your own sources of food. If you can provide these things for yourself, then you can attack the system with near impunity from your own actions, and the suprising thing is, you'd probably end up in the poverty tax bracket, and qualify for handouts, which you could turn against them. In modern American, patriots don't need to attack people, people are too numerous, and too insignificant to modern life (part of our current problem). Infrastructure is the key. Once you attack the infrastructure, you place people in a situation some of them have never been in before, a situation where they can't rely on big brother to provide for them, to supply them power, to magically make food available, and some of them might start thinking about how dependant they are on the system, and without killing anyone(pissing them off pretty badly though), you'd have put people on the road to a little greater awareness.

If the time ever comes to rebel, just remember that perk of modern life, that for the most part you can upset life to the extreme without killing a single person. I'm certainly not saying don't be ready to, or don't train how to, but just keep options in mind.

Whatever you do though, don't attack the structure of the internet. When people get discontent, or disillusioned with the system, they will need a place to vent, and when they come vent online, there will be plenty of others to vent too, which might increase thinking even more.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Disrupt the country in a significant way over this issue and the country and most of the general populace and MOST of the gun owners
will turn against you with a vengenance.

There will not be a massive rising to support gun rights when people with guns wreck the social fabric and economy.

You will become hated and treated like drug dealers.

If we cannot win the normal battle to convince folks for the RKBA with logic and evidence, do you think threaten them and
messing up the country is going to work.

This conversation is exactly why the RKBA is in sad shape - can't make a convincing argument and then going off in to looney land.

All other civil rights movements won the hearts and minds of the populace. You're going to do it with fear.

You honestly think you can get 1000000 folk
with rifles to start shooting. Not going to happen and in fact, if antis get statements like that, they will tar the RKBA as an extreme cause supported by crackpots.

Sorry - but we need a real message and not fantasy.
 
We're just hypothesising, calm down.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
All you naysayers out there: Now think logically for a moment; if you were in power with all the government at your dissposal, directly or indirectly and the money at your disposal to buy influence , propagandise, or disrupt the activities of the Patriots in normal life; why would you voluntarily give that up?

When the Declaration of Independance applies in every aspect and more to the current federal government and when that government clamors for the same powers that Hitler gained inorder to create the system that led to the near extermination of a whole religious race, what more reason for action to thwart this trend do you need?

And Washington could be taken with a mere thousand dedicated men... it wouldn't be pretty but it could be done! Hypothetically of course.

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What part of "INFRINGED" don't they understand?
 
Here's a bit of Jefferson's words regarding this:

"Prudence indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

Even the founding fathers knew the power of apathy, and wrote of it in their declaration. Jefferson said a lot of wise things, but this, perhaps, was the single most true thing, that mankind will put up with anything, as long as they are able to, simply to avoid having to change.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
EnochGale:

It's not necessarily the RKBA movement that would spearhead the hypothetical revolution. It could be any one of a number of movements that are perceived as "on the fringe" but with enough sympathizers to make a significant impact if violent action was taken.

I'm of the opinion that this country needs a good revolution, no matter the sponsor, in order to wake the citizenry up to the true priorities in life.

The revolution wouldn't even need to be successful to have the desired effect. A few weeks of ethnic or other "cleansing", massive blackouts, shortages of supplies, and general civil unrest, while all unfortunates, would serve as a true cathartic for this nation. A giant social enema, if you will.

A natural disaster of requisite size could also serve the same purpose.
 
That's all nice and dandy.

You folks waiting for the revolution miss the basic point.

If the country doesn't buy that the RKBA is important, RKBA supporters shooting folk is not going to convince them.

So when you discuss this hypothetically, hypothetically you are putting yourself in the same boat with Ted K., the mad bomber, and the loons who blew up Oklahoma City.

Think of your friends and neighbors, when their power goes out, their kids can't go to school, etc. - they will turn your butt in a flash.

If you can't convince the electorate, we are sunk.

Maybe it is good to have a thread every once in awhile and you can post to it. Thus, when the country does pass such laws, the ATF and the UN can trace you through the thread and come and get you.

Then you can stand in the door with your AR-15 and get blown up.

As I said before, if people who are reachable in the political middle read these type of threads, they will quickly become anti-RKBA.
 
What, hypothetically, would my hypothetical neighbors hypothetically turn me in for?

Storing too much hypothetical water?
 
Folks support the RKBA start shooting at powerlines, government officials, antis and the like (such has been hinted at).

The government announces that since hi-power rifles are being used, all such must be registered with the state and kept locked up like in England.

To make sure all are registered, if you know of an owner of such please tell your locale law enforcement agency. If you inform on someone who has not registered, you will get a reward.

Given the reward and the terrorism that some here seem to propose, only hypothetically, you will be turned in.

If we lose the popular battle, no group of guys with rifles is going to get gun rights back. And that is because they will not have public backing needed for revolution.
 
I never said I owned any guns at all, and that's not hypothetical.

No one's saying revolution should come before the "redress of grievances" right is completely exhausted. At this point, it is not completely exhausted, but it's getting close. What is close? That's open to interpretation. One year? 20 years? Who knows?

The government of this republic has a long history of continuing oppression, with only brief and short steps away from oppression. No matter how many grievances we attempt to redress, the pattern of oppression continues. Something has to give, sometime.


[This message has been edited by deanf (edited September 19, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EnochGale:
Folks support the RKBA start shooting at powerlines, government officials, antis and the like (such has been hinted at).

The government announces that since hi-power rifles are being used, all such must be registered with the state and kept locked up like in England.[/quote]

And it works so well in England, doesn't it? Crime is up. GUN crime is up, and the thugs running around in the streets are _more_ likely to be armed, and more likely to be armed with greater firepower, than before.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>To make sure all are registered, if you know of an owner of such please tell your locale law enforcement agency. If you inform on someone who has not registered, you will get a reward.[/quote]

And the rebels plant throw-away guns in the homes and vehicles of collaborators and turn _them_ in. Or just kill a few high-profile rats and let the rest of the herd figure out for themselves whether informing on angry, armed citizens who are already at war with their government is really a good idea.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Given the reward and the terrorism that some here seem to propose, only hypothetically, you will be turned in.

If we lose the popular battle, no group of guys with rifles is going to get gun rights back. And that is because they will not have public backing needed for revolution.[/quote]

For anyone who is really interested in this subject, I recommend subscribing to talk.politics.guns on usenet, where the subject is discussed frequently. Points that are often made are that any such rebellion would be (at best) premature if _any_ hope of a political solution remains; that attacking the public isn't the solution--a great deal of discussion of who (and what) _do_ constitute appropriate targets goes on there.

Debate on what sort of resistance would work best, what wouldn't, and a general consensus that "militias" stomping around in the woods will be sitting ducks. "Pistol and ice-pick war" is a phrase that gets used a lot.

Some of the participants think a war is imminent. Others think it might not happen for generations, but they pretty much all agree that it will happen eventually. History demonstrates that eventually _every_ government becomes dictatorial and must be overthrown (barring, of course, those that get overthrown by a foreign power before that happens). So the question is not, "What if" but "When and how?"

And the participants are all perfectly aware that they are--or would be, if the revolt actually happens--at the top of the federal hit parade. But they figure that it needs discussing, and the conversation is useful for all the many lurkers out there who read and remember and think and plan, but who never respond. THEY aren't going to be on the lists. Besides, if you don't dare discuss revolting against a hostile government for fear of its response, you've ALREADY lost.
 
It's not going to be a RKBA revolution. It will be a revolution against oppression at all levels. The RKBA cadre will be a small part of it.
 
Who said that guns would be used?

Goodness, swimming pools, vehicles, rope, knives, crowbars, hammers, drills, ball-point pens, rocks, bows and arrows, slings, etc... oh, but if those are used then we will have the anti-swimming pools, vehicles, rope, knives, crowbars, hammers, drills, ball-point pens, rocks, bows and arrows, slings, etc. crowd turn against us!

Damned if we do. Enslaved if we don't.

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...
 
Yes Al Mondraca.
With yet another list of semi-automatic rifles having been banned it would be far to
premature.
We should wait till they triple their list of firearms that are not suited for a 'sporting purpose'.
I know if a group of armed masked men ever broke into my home Id shoot first and ask questions later as such gangs are not known to indentify themselves but overwhelm their prey due to the appearence of their superior force(without a fight of any sort) AND because itd be obvious my life and freedom are being threatened with a group of armed men breaking in having no business in my home.
Some would simply put their arms up and wait for our ever protective (and screwed) judicial system to come to their aid, maybe I should do that.
But if just 1 in 3 gunowners defended themselves to such a facist attack in their home.
Do you remember giving anyone the authority to invade your home after you made a purchase that was declared legal and they later 'decided' that it was an illegal firearms purchase because the so called 'background check was not completed.

www.ccops.org www.gunowners.org
Dear NRA the word is REPEAL!

------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
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