I call BS...

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1) A "hunting" bullet expands and makes a bigger hole. Yeah, they expand a bit, but not nearly enough to create that much more significant a wound passage. When you're talking about a hole, is there much difference between .30" and 0.45" if you missed the vitals anyway?
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The flaw in your premise is that you are only considering the damage done where the bullet actually crushes the tissue directly in its path. Rifle bullets can do damage beyond the bullet path (or otherwise there wouldn't be any difference between shooting something with a .35 Remington and shooting it with a 9mm).

However rifle bullets also do damage by stretching surrounding tissue beyond its elastic limits until it tears. So the next question you want to ask is "Do FMJ rifle bullets stretch this tissue in the same way as an expanding bullet?"
 
I've never worried about pass-through or energy transfer. I've "autopsied" somewhere around fifty deer. When field-dressing or butchering, I've been curious as to just what the bullet did. Most all of my hunting bullets have created a large amount of mush inside the animal.

I figure that a double-handful of mush beats a pencil-hole pass-through. :)

And by the way, this thread ain't about bow-hunting...
 
Of all the big game animals I've seen shot with FMJ's.....

1. They act like they haven't been hit.
2. Blood trails are nearly non-existent which is paramount in recovering game.


In my opinion, FMJ's lack of expansion make them poor choices for everything except dangerous game. If you notice most of the solids used in Africa and elsewhere that has dangerous game have rounded tips which, I would assume, creates more tissue damage that pointed projectiles. In closing, the greater the tissue damage, the greater the bleeding and the larger the exit hole for better blood trails--when needed. Not to mention the greater energy transfer of expanding bullets....
 
I use fmj all the time when hunting..and never had a deer hog run off....mainly because I shoot them in the head...and really..if u cannot hit a 4 inch target at 300 yards with a 223 what are u doing with a rifle to begin with....my average groups are 3'' maybe 3.5 max
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Your deer have 4" diameter brains? "Mega-Mind deer? And you can consitently hit a 4" target that moves at at odd intervals at 300yards......

Now I'm calling BS.

At least I HOPE you are BS-ing....

Your bullet (55gr BTFMJ leaving the muzzle @ 3,000 f/sec) will take more than 1/3 of a second to get to 300 yards, and that does not include the lock time..... it ain't a lazer beam. You can be sure the deer won't move it's (oversized?) head 4"? No.

You have a rangefinder, I trust ..... and know exactly how much more to hold over for 300 than 225?

I'm thinking that if you really attempt this very often, from field positions, in field conditions, there will be more than 1 deer taking weeks to die, due to a FMJ through the lower jaw or other such oopses.

:barf::barf::barf:

It doesn't bother me hearing an animal suffer.
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more :barf:


If you wanna see inhumane, watch the Discovery channel with a pride of lions tearing apart a little baby gazel.
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That's why they call it inhumane: lions are not human, and are not expected to act in a humane fasion. They don't care, and only want to eat. Empathy is a human emotion.

Back on topic: If you want to eat, and not just feed coyotes: Use bullets that are designed to expand at the velocities you are expecting them to strike the target animal at, yet are tough enough to penetrate deep enough to damage vital organs. If you don't know, Don't. Do some research, Ask somebody who knows (and then get some independent verification, lest you go galumphing off to attempt 300 yard headshots with 55gr FMJ from an M-4gery because somebody on the internet sez it works.

A FMJ bullet is not "it". I have a knucklehead brother that in his younger and dumber years tried to shoot more than 1 deer ("you know, you'd think if it did not work the first time.....") with FMJ 7.62x39 out of an SKS..... swore he hit that thing 9 times ..... "zombie deer"? No, just a hunter zombies would have had no interest in......
 
I'd like to see a side by side comparison in the same caliber of damage to ballistic gellatin from a FMJ, and then from a "hunting" bullet such as a Hornady SST, or Nosler Ballistic tip.

The proof will be evident quite easily as to which will do the most damage.

Not saying the FMJ won't kill the animal, but how long will it take? True hunting bullets can, and often times will, disrupt blood pressure, and central nervous function as a result of rapidly expanding pressure inside the organ cavity.

If you took a pencil and stabbed it through your heart-you would die. Likewise, if you poked a pencil size hole into your chest, and then rapidly expanded that projectile into a baseball, or softball, sized wound cavity with shrapnel everywhere, you'd die just as well, but probably just a little faster.

My vote will always go to the hunting bullet when shooting game animals.
 
I figure that a double-handful of mush beats a pencil-hole pass-through
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+1

1) A "hunting" bullet expands and makes a bigger hole. Yeah, they expand a bit, but not nearly enough to create that much more significant a wound passage. When you're talking about a hole, is there much difference between .30" and 0.45" if you missed the vitals anyway
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-1

I have killed quite a few deer (about 2 dozen, I'd guess), nearly all of them with a .270 WIN ..... at ranges from 15 feet to "way out past Fort Mudge" ...... all but 3 (IIRC) shot through the chest (heart/lungs).... of those heart/lung shots, all but 1 of the broadside shots passed through, in one side, and out the other. In the cases where the heart was hit, whether the range was 30 yards or 460, the heart did not just have a .277" or even .5" hole in it: it was ripped open. Lungs resemble a bloody pink sponge after a soft pointed high powered rifle bullet goes through them at thousands of feet per second..... not just the part that got hit, but the whole organ....
 
To the guy who wrote "I use fmj all the time when hunting..and never had a deer hog run off....mainly because I shoot them in the head...and really..if u cannot hit a 4 inch target at 300 yards with a 223 what are u doing with a rifle to begin with....my average groups are 3'' maybe 3.5 max"

it says you're from Alabama. Dude you do know that hunting with FMJ in Alabama is illegal? I cant remember the exact wording but the regulations state centerfire mushrooming ammuntion 22 caliber or larger
 
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Sounds like the guy from snipershide who was claiming he could easily hit a deck of cards at 1000yds. All he had to do was type in the data and boom he could hit it

:rolleyes: Sound like mall ninja talk to me. Not that it's impossible but it's not the easiest thing to hit a 4" target at 300yds for the average shooter, especially when you account for wind.
 
You guys know Daekar ran off, and hasn't returned to this thread, right?

The OP is no longer interested in this discussion, and is actively pursuing advice on expanding bullets in the reloading forum, now.

You're beating a dead horse. ;)
 
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