I brought a fence sitter to our side, what are you doing?

R

Ruger

Moderator
Here's a topic we don't discuss much here. How to sway public opinion to our sides. For the last few months I've been inviting over folks who never shot before, a few that are really anti-gun. I've showed them guns, let them shoot, and in general had a great time, a few dollars with of chicken to cook, some beans, a few sodas, and some ammo and targets. The turn around rate has been really good, over 50% so far. As far as these people wanting to buy guns, and see what it's all about. The biggest problem we face is not us looking bad, guns looking like evil objects, but the fear these people have because of what they have seen.

Well today brought about another convert to our voting team. A 23 year old college girl who just a scant two weeks ago was pushing for us all to have our guns locked up and ony be able to use them at certain times. We spent about 4 or 5 hrs discussing this topic in a level headed manner, a few of my proffesors didn't like the fact I missed a class or two working on this deal, but oh well. Yesterday I emailed her a bunch of quotes, laid out the constitution and Bill of Rights and we went over together what was being done by the government illegally. She still declines to shoot, because of a family related suicide, but she and I reached an understanding about where I stand in relation to her rights.

When are you folks gonna bring someone over?



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Live Free or Die Trying,

Steve
 
My friend,

This is what we all oughta be doing. I make it a point of convincing ONE PERSON A WEEK on the gun-owner/conservative view on the 2nd amendment. The thing is, that, hopefully, once one is convinced about something they had never really considered before, they will in turn convince someone else through their newly-found "truth".

Good thinking and let's all keep it up!
 
Ruger,

Good job! It is very hard to convert an anti-gunner. These folks have been saturated with the emotional brain washing that people like HCI, the media and current administration spews out.

For the most part, the best thing to do is not loose your temper or sink to name calling. Also, knowing when to walk away is a good option. What you are attempting to do is fight emotions with logic. This is the hardest debate that one can get in. I have seen grown men break down in tears over the "horror of gun violence" or the "terror of gun nuts killing kids." Most of these anti-gun people are really good people, they are just messed up. And they all do have a few things in common. 1) For various reasons, they do not live in the real world. They have locked themselves into a personal envelope and refuse to see the world for what it really is.(Soccer Moms are a prime example)

2) They are borderline socialists. Who, because of their own personal ineptness, lack of character or insecurity look to the state to solve problems.

3) Watch way too much TV (re: #1)

4) Really think that they are smarter than the average bear.

How do you deal with people like this? Apply the same tactics as when your are training a dog or teaching your kids, Patience, Praise and Reptetion. Do your best, that's all you can do.

And, actually Ruger, the majority of the people are on our side. The media just ignores that fact. I have researched this issue and it is very, very true. The people calling the shots atthe networks are not letting the polls that show support for the second amendment hit the airwaves. The only pro-gun poll result was reported by CBS concerning a ban on all hand gun sales in the US. Dan Rather reported it and he looked like he was going to throw up during the whole segment.

Keep up the good fight.


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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
I spend a lot of time talking to people all over the world online. Whenever I go shooting, I tell them about it. I take pictures of my new equipment, and tell them about how much I like it. By and large, they consider themselves Liberal, in the modern parlance. Almost none have ever handled a gun, let alone been friends with someone who has.

When a gun-related story is splashed across the news, I make a pro-law-and-order comment about it, like "Too bad no one there was carrying a concealed weapon to defend that crowd" as has been all to relevant lately. I get the obligatory jokes about machine guns and nuclear weapons, but by and large, they respect my opinions as reasoned and honest.

Even if I don't convert anyone into a full-time pro-Bill of Rights evangelist like myself, at least they have one trusted friend who is a level-headed, honest gun owner. I invest the faith and credit they have invested in me in other matters towards my beliefs in gun ownership and self-reliance, because real friendship is always a package deal. No one has stopped speaking to me yet. Don't be afraid to brag, educate, and encourage.
 
Four years ago my wife's cousin, his wife and son were over for dinner one Saturday night. The boy was 16 at the time.

After dinner I let him fire my 6" S&W 586 on my indoor range. The kid loved it while his mother was upstairs acting somewhat displeased.

I saw him a couple of week ago and he is now in college in Kentucky. He said with a big grin that he will never forget the experience. It seemed to be a high point in his young life. He said he is going to find a range at college where he can rent a gun and shoot.

It was worth a cylinder full of .357's and a dent in my trap (not a bad shot for a newbie) to win a convert! ;)

He's another one who won't fall for Sarah Brady's B.S.
 
I have only "converted" one anti to pro. She's a shooter now, and really enjoys it. I've also let people shoot my guns that had never had the chance before. Where I work...Ugh, sometimes I feel like I work at HCI headquarters. These people are rabid. They start the yelling, name calling, etc. The best I've come to do is convince them I'm not a psycho. I swear, they would run from a gun like it was the Anti-Christ, so I have not been able to take anyone shooting. The general consensus is that I am OK, but every other gun owner must be crazy and needs to be locked up, and that I should be forced to live with a butt load of restrictions. Well, that's the situ I face...

Currently I am trying to get my sister in law out shooting. My brother has a few guns, but she hates them. I keep telling her that for the sake of the 3 yr old boy they have, she NEEDS to at least know gun safety. I think it's only a matter of time before she is assimilated ;)

Hope you all have better luck than me!
 
I think I've made an impression on my younger cousins and especialy their parents. I've often talked to them about hunting and firearms related activities. Now proudly I can say they have all taken up shooting sports. As far as their thoughts on gun control I think they relize guns aren't evil, but people.
 
Ruger:

Believe it or not, I never met any real anti-gunners in what was my chosen profession (US Army). Not to say there aren't some in the military, but I never met one.

Now that I'm retired, I'll probably have to deal with it at some point. The course of action you've used seems to works well...I'll use it myself, if you don't mind ;)

I think what you're doing, at the university level, is critically important, but be careful for the following reason: As an undergraduate, I took a course in Constitutional Law (I was a Criminal Justice major with an emphasis in law and legal theory)...I argued vehemently with an anti-gun professor over RKBA in general and the 2d amendment in particular while in class. I'd carried a solid "A" throughout the entire semester...the little jerk gave me a "B" in the course...I didn't care, I'd made my point. Just be aware some academics are not above beating you up because you have the cojones to disagree with them in class.

Keep up the outstanding work!
Mike
 
Maybe I need to find more 23 yr old college girls....yeah, that's the ticket. Get them before they become "Soccer Moms" ;)
 
Well, I have my work cut out for me. I take an early morning walk with two Korean War vets who draw 10% disability. Nothing the government can do is wrong "They've done all right by me" is the constant theme. The one
bright spot is that they are ambivalent to guns, almost to the point of being oblivious as to what's going on.

Bit by bit, on these walks, I do a little
evangelizing, leaving out Waco because of the above-mentioned bias, but I can see that
I have a ways to go -- something like water wearing away stone.

The good news is that I'm working on my 13-year-old grandson. My daughter-in-law is pretty anti-gun because of an earlier incident. I asked her if it was OK to show the kid safe gun handling and she grudgingly agreed. The kid had a good time and has potential. I asked him if his teachers said anything about guns. he said some of them talked about going hunting, but that was it (this is in Utah).

So, for now, I figure a 33% success ratio.


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If you can't fight City Hall, at least defecate on the steps.
 
Mike,

I know the exact profs you speak of, had a few myself. Had one man here on a work visa as a German instructor, carried a "b" all the way to the end and right after drop day he really got rash about the gun thing. Blatant in your face, you are a killer stuff. Well I'm not a back down sort of guy, do sometimes get a little worked-up. Well first I told him he could head on back to Germany if he wished, if he didn't believe in our country and that I'd pay the ticket. Well he began to shout in German and about that time I decided attack being better than retreat, I would treat him to a little quotation abuse. I as a habit carry a 3 ring binder full of gun quotes, constitution, and Bill of Rights. Lets say he didn't appreciate my booming voice and my don't back down attitude. The class was really happy, he'd slammed the 1st, 4th, 9th along with the 2nd. Lets just say my grade suffered a little more than yours since he had me removed from the class.

My brother had an "A" dip to a "C" when he spoke and argued agaisnt an HCI spokeswomen in his college community health class.

I've got a list of proffesors I've had the battle with now. I've found in about 75% of the cases they actually value someone outspoken enough to debate the teacher. I've found the most receptive teachers to be the ones who are really loud and obnoxious about it. My current goal is to swing the mind of a proffesor who states the Ben Franklin didn't approve of the revolution, actually spoke agaisnt it. That round comes tue. afternoon, it should be a humdinger.

But I'll tell you this, I'd rather my gpa suffer anyday than my rights suffer from lack of protecting them. I get sick and tired of everywhere I turn somebody else is turning their backs on us. What it boils down to is if each and everyone of us doesn't step-up we'll soon be either handing-in or fighting a revolution(hope that doesn't offend in anyone). I'm an English major, and this major has a fair number of hardcore gun grabbers. Take care, keep your head high, your powder dry, and your aim true.



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Live Free or Die Trying,

Steve
 
Ruger,

You could mention that Ben F. was a bisexual alcoholic, so therefore his opinions should be disregarded ;). THAT oughta make him stammer!


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"Taking a long view of history, we may say that
anyone who lays down his arms deserves whatever he gets."
--Jeff Cooper
 
Coinneach,

It's not that, he was one of the more laid back of the supporter, but it's been said his idea of asking Jefferson not to propose the Declaration might have been the one factor that insured it's eventual passage. He wasn't much of a fighter, yet he knew it had to be done, he did ask Samuel Adams to approach Jefferson with him though. I'd never heard the Bi-sexual thing before, but had heard he did like a little booze. I just started reading his autobiography for this profs class, and every other page has a statement about hating tyranny. The guy says the book had nothing to do with the revolution, yet he started writing in 1771, it seems so far like an organization of his life, to see if this is what he really wanted to push for. Who knows. I'm curious do you have any good quotes from Franklin? I'm looking for some, seems the web is permeated with Jefferson quotes, but maybe Franklin wasn't much of a talker.




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Live Free or Die Trying,

Steve
 
Ruger and all students,

I have been in education for a long time, I am employed at a college. I have been on both sides of the educational fence. Meaning I taught and now am administration. I URGE you
to challenge any instructor that drops you a grade because of your political views. You can appeal through the Ombudsman Office or Dean of Students. If the professor can not demonstrate a degrading of student performance in a peer review, your grades will be adjusted accordingly.

I sat on these panels. No matter what, the scales are biased to the student. Not even the most tenured professor can justify dropping grades because they didn't agree with you. The best professors will challenge you, fight you, fustrate you and push you to the limits. And, at the end, you will never know where they really stand. I had a professor on constitutional law once offer a $20 bill to the student who could tell him his political leanings and PROVE IT. The guy was great, he would mix it up at the drop of a hat. No one collected the twenty in my class.


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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizona territory
 
Ruger:

Some of my favorite Franklin quotes:

Experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in no other.

They that can give up essential liberties to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
1759

There never was a good war or a bad peace.


We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
At the signing of the Declaration

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I,We,You Guys, have been working on my sister-in-law for sometime.Maybe some of her fellow workers also.(They liked the attack tuna thread)
Stay safe .
 
Joe,

Thanks, anymore you can think of or find I can use, if you want feel free to email me, it's posted above.



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Live Free or Die Trying,

Steve Moody
 
Hey, for Mike:

You brought up a 15-year-old memory there, guy, because I really did run into a no-kidding gun grabber while in the military! Now, I was AF and that might be more likely than the Army, but it was still a dickens of a shock to find a field-grade career officer in the ARMED forces, as we tend to call them, completely adamant about how bad weapons of all kinds were! 'Fraid I wasn't too effective in my arguments (of course, he was my boss) but I think just the fact that I could NOT stop laughing might someday make him stop and think.
 
I converted several coworkers. I work for a very liberal Silcon Valley based firm. Folks here are very set in there ways. 4 of them have now purchased pistols - one of them an UZI. Why an Uzi? He was getting in touch with his macho side. Anyways... They LOVED the idea of doing something the government hated. which was the main reason. 2 now have CCWs. (not the Uzi owner)

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
Wow, Mike--nothing like yours, but I did once get a C on what I thought was an A paper. Maybe that's just conceit, but the prof told me I got the C because I didn't support my case well enough. Said it was otherwise an A paper but I used facts that "everyone knows are fatuous" such as Lott's research. I couldn't get him to tell me what the flaw in Lott's research was or whether I was wrong in pointing out that the HCI study that concluded you're "43 times more likely to kill a family member . . . " was unsalvageably flawed. This was a Government 103 class. Pissed me off but I still got an A overall so I don't have a lot to bitch about.
 
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