I am really getting worried about our gun rights.

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May I suggest to all TFLers for the umpteenth time...read this book;

"Unintended Consequences", by John Ross

When you're finished with that one read;

"Patriots, Surviving the Coming Collapse", By J. Wesley Rawles
 
This is my first post. I have been following this forum for the past year, and I have reached the same awful conclusion as you guys have stated above; that is, that any further political action on our parts, "within" the system, may very well be futile.

Not that we can afford to give up political action. Here we must strengthen our resolve, become born again gun owners if you will. But we can't put all our eggs in one basket, either. We have to stockpile and plan for armed conflict.

So how will it come? Gun owners dying singly, in lone gunman, six o'clock news type incidents? Or concerted militia action? Or something else??

Which of the above is more favorable, and what have you guys been doing to prepare? Militia membership, burying, stockpiling machine tools, what?

I am a college student at a VERY liberal university, with a very limited budget, and I dont look forward to living in a totalitarian police state. I need to start preparing now, no matter how little it may be. Thinking about learning gunsmithing on the side, to keep it from dying out when the US goes totally socialist.

"The beginning of human slavery, is the fear of death."
 
I think we're all scared. Not in the sense that gun control advocates talk about, but concerned as hell about the future. I want to be left alone, not defending rights that no man gave me. But can I? If I can now, will I be able to later? I don't know.

I'm not a gun fan, although I feel the need to learn as much as I can (and boy, do I have a long ways to go). But I'm scared to death about our future, our children's future. I don't want a future without freedom. I don't want that for my children.
 
I think before we FIX BAYONETS and charge..that we need more PUBLIC demonstrations.Like TRT in Colo.Yet I fear most people do not want to take the time or energy ...to do so. I have'nt heard anything happening in Massachusetts....nor in Connecticut (turn in your neighbor). I don't know what gun owners in those states need to get motivated. An outright BAN? Maryland? I mean if gun owners in these states aren't pissed off enough to organize...and demonstrate in their state capitols...then I think ALL is lost.Do you really think gun owners are going to wait for armed conflict before they organize?? I mean if they won't demonstrate peacefully...they sure as hell won't won't be sitting on their porch with their AR's or AK's waiting for some Gov't goon to show up....and start blasting.Too many arm chair commandos living in a dream world.
 
Organize two and three man teams and get ready for individual action.

The order of the day will be assasination, sabotage, and guerilla war. That is the only realistic possiblity if it ever comes to armed conflict. As it surely will eventually. I only hope it is limited to the actual perpetrators of the destruction of our rights and does not overly involve the innocent sheeple. They are not really at fault - just deluded and ignorant.

Viva La Resistance!

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Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
Gun owners dying singly, in lone gunman, six o'clock news type incidents?

That will be the start, with gleeful JBTs displaying their arsenals. Oops, excuse me! That's happening now.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brent:
I'm getting an M1A.

It's not for hunting.[/quote]

I already have an AR-15. It's my "militia rifle", and I am "well-regulated" in its use.
 
I'll make a deal with the "authorities":

You don't trample on my rights, and I won't trample on YOU.

I, too, am fearful that there is eventually going to be shooting. That's why I am practicing with a handful of weapons every chance that I get. Long-range, medium-range, and short-range. Got one to suit each of those needs, and can pack them and sufficient ammo around with me.

The bottom line is that unless we make the government fear US, instead of the other way around, we will continue to see more erosion of our rights.

The direction of power flow has gotten totally reversed. It is supposed to START with We, The People, not come down on our heads.

But take heart, friends, and remember that if they come for us, it won't be like going after the helpless sheep that surround us. The reason they are trying to disarm us is WE HAVE THE GUNS!
 
CASSIDY...I don't have neighbors that I think I could trust with my life....in your 2/3 man teams,scenario.
Bob Locke has his AR-15....you really got the stones to use it in a BATF raid? Got a wife? Kids? They come in the night...you know..Flash bangs...MP-5's... will render your loved ones into hamburger.Got a plan have you? Or maybe they get you at work..where your co-workers have ratted you out.Do you carry? At work? We'll see you on the evening news....you've seen the video before. Bad days ahead...... :( :(
 
I think that's what it will come down to. And I'm not particularly hopeful about our chances. I don't want it, and will do whatever possible to avoid it. But where is the line? Confiscation of guns? Plenty of other rights have gone by the wayside. Seizure laws, etc. I just don't know anymore.

[This message has been edited by Colombe (edited April 15, 2000).]
 
Obviously...we will have more legislation...up too....but not overtly banning guns. It will just be so hard to purchase...that most people won't. They already have the youngsters in their brain washing clutches...those who already own... will become(already are) social pariahs..(see smokers).Youth of America...will be used to persuade parents to turn in evil guns...and gun collections will be heavilly taxed...most heirs will turn them in rather than pay.Those who secretly keep them, may be turned in by neices or nephews...sons or daughters (see Hitler Youth).A few high profile shoot 'em ups with links to drug use(easily planted by Gov't types).This prevents neighbors from riding to the rescue.(Drugs are bad)Or anyone else contemplating leagal aid to deceased gun owner/family.(They were nice and quiet...who knew?) Do ya get the picture?? :(
 
Come on guys, all is not lost. All wee need is a Second Amendment friendly Supreme Court.

The next president will nominate three or four new Supreme Court justices. With all of the lawsuits going on these days, the Emerson case in Texas, and with our lack of congresspeople with a spine, it is imperative that we keep a pro Second Amendment Supreme Court!

A vote for anyone except for Bush this fall is a vote for Al Gore. Don't get me wrong, under normal circumstances I may have voted Libertarian this year, but this is not a normal election cycle.

This year the stakes are just too high!

Bush may be silent on these gun control issues, but at least he is not actively working against us like Gore is. I think Bush is just trying to appeal to the most people possible by being moderate. It is the undecided middle of the roaders who will decide the next election. As long as the news media is conspiring against us, it makes no sense for Bush to talk about guns which would just scare the soccer moms and other undecideds.

Joe



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Joe's Second Amendment Message Board
 
Huke; Rock, et al--in my 51 years here I have never seen America in more peril from enemies within ( BC, FineSwein, the Media, etc. ) and enemies without ( China, N. Korea, assorted terrorist groups & countries..)
...Now is the time to take action! Educate yourself-via the 'net, and get everyone you know to do the same--willful ignorance is killing America!
...if you aren't contributing to:
goa
jpfo
sas-aim
judicial watch
...why not? Even a few bucks a week, or a month, is better than nothing. These people are on the vanguard of preserving what little liberty we have left.
"If not us-who? If not now-when?" ( a real man said this some years ago...)
-30-
johnr

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"live free or die trying..."
 
Listen- Bill Clinton's approval rating is about 60%. Supposedly, polls say most gunowners support registration. If anyone thinks some sort of revolution has any chance of suceeding any time in the foreseeable future, you are wrong.

"If 5% of gunowners..." etc. Well, if five percent of gunowners wrote all their representatives every time a gun bill was being considered, we would win, probably easily. Five percent of eighty million gun owners is 4,000,000. Can you imagine if congress recived four million letters EVERY TIME there was a gun vote? Each senator would get an average of forty thousand! Each represenative would get hundreds! The mail would fill traincars! If every member of the NRA did this, it would happen! And for only a couple bucks in stamps, and few hours of time!

And since this obviously DOESN'T happen, why would anyone think this small percent of gunowners would risk almost certain death, in order to kill policemen and National Guardsmen!?!? If someone doesn't care enough to lick a stamp, WHY WOULD THEY CARE ENOUGH TO DIE?

A political solution is much, much easier. A non-political solution has zero support. Please think about it.
 
I'd be very suspicious of a poll that shows most gunowners support registration. But, your other points are on the money. We have to win first in the political arena. Preventing Algore from winning the presidency is a first step. Along with volunteering to help pro-gun congressional candidates.

The toughest task, though, is to get the media to present our point of view fairly. We can't sue them for their mistatements any more than we could sue each other here when we disagree. We can bring pressure on them, though, financially. And I don't think that a mass mailing to someone like Katie Courec is going to do it. It has to go to the guys who worry about the money. If they get concerned, the sh*t is going to run downstream to the talking heads. So, let's organize a mailing to the CEO's of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN and so on.
We can do it politely, and point out the errors they have made. We can also emphasize that it's in their financial interest to show
balanced reporting, because those who object to one-sided stories will watch a balanced program.

What say ye?

Dick
 
There is, of course, a solution, but very few people would be willing to take it.

The solution is simple. Mass, continuing, public passive resistance. Everyone who truly will not accept a ban on private ownership of guns clog the statehouse stairways every day. Sit in a silent mass outside of government buildings. Peaceably shut-down every public function possible. All the while being absolutely peaceable and non-violent. Twenty thousand people showing up on the Boston Common at dusk, each holding a candle -- one for every unarmed innocent victim of violent crime in just the past several weeks. And just holding the candles in utter silence. Taking one day a month off from work to converge at some spot to silently hold signs with the names of people denied carry permits who were subsequently butchered by ex-boy friends or girl friends. Every black and Jew in the area holding a silent vigil with signs saying "Never Again!" Finding some 2nd amendment lawyers (there have to be some _somewhere_) who will accept as payment 100% of any damages resulting from filing a blizzard of lawsuits against AGs and cities (it works both ways) when someone who has been denied a firearm is subsequently attacked, maimed, or killed.

This is the choice we are looking at. The cost? Money. Being arrested by "Liberals" who have an aneurism whenever anyone challenges _their_ authority to run your life as they see fit (these are probably the same "Liberals" who burned ROTC buildings and throw blood on furriers). Perhaps your relationship with friend or significant other. Ostracization.

I think it's becoming that stark a choice. But night after night of this on the news (and no, the lapdog media could not ignore such events) would have an enormous effect upon public opinion and public policy.

woodit
 
MrX - I certainly have no plans on having shootouts with anyone in my house. Any JBT's show up - they can have everything I got with no resistance on my part.

After they leave ... well then I can do whatever I want

It is a sad situation and one that I find almost incomprehensible in a way. I mean even 10 years ago these thoughts were never even considered. The notion that our Govt. could become what it has become was laughable. And now we have many, many people - good people, people who go to work everyday and support their families, entertaining the idea of the inevitability of armed insurrection?!?!?!?!

My God it has gotta be bad!!

Just goes to show what a little incrementalism will do for ya.

------------------
Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
Yup & again, just skimming the posts for the flavor ....

Yes, we are in very depressing times. & yes, "we will shoot 'em up when they come through the door!" = not. You will die. & you will not have one chance in 100 to "take one of them with you." & in the midst of your family!? Right.

I used to do that very same "JBT"-thing in the "olden daze"/past life when we didn't even dream of today's technologies & the element of surprize still smoked 'em every time. As it will you. Dream on re "taking them on" ... you will die in "making your statement."

Those who will not even participate in their own government today will be too much of a whimp (I dare not say pussy for fear of censure) to do much of anything else but cower under the sheets when it "hits the fan."

Folks, in 20 seconds (or less) your life will be determined by those who want to determine it. That is the whole nature of any dynamic entry. Flash! Bang! & you are history.

If you won't stand up for your rights now, you never will.

You better pull your head/s out & get active.
Tell those "public servants" the same thing.
You refuse to have your rights stripped in the name of some "mamby-pamby" BS! now and forever.

YOU are NOT the problem with today's societal ills. Never was, never will be. & YOU, personally, will not now, or ever, allow them to further strip you of any more rights/freedoms.

Damn it!

Take a stand.

If you can't bring yourself to do it verbally, you most certainly will never have the guts to do it physically.

If nothing else, you can honestly say to yourself (and family) that you, personally, did everything you could to prevent the certain madness to come.

If not now, when?
 
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