I am really getting worried about our gun rights.

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HukeOKC

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I guess I just don't understand how the press who rely so much on the Bill of Rights to do their work, will not step up and back us up when we rely on the same Bill of Rights to protect our guns. I get very frustrated sitting here with NO resources besides an e-mail address and phone number to a politician who would turn either way on gun issues if it would ensure him another election. I am getting really down about this whole deal to the point that I don't know what else to do. We can talk all we want but our voice is never as loud as the anti's. They have the media on their side. I just need some words of wisdom from someone who can say, Hey Huke, all is well and you can always have your guns and be able to give them to your son without being burned at the stake for it. I just got out of the Army after 7 yrs and I had not been active about guns and never knew the heat that was being put on them in the real world. I used to think my Dad was being paranoid but now I see what he was talking about. I am not trying to start a war here but I promise right now that I will not hesitate to defend my rights from this government by any means necessary. I don't mean to sound like a wacko but I am prepared to do what it takes to try and get this country back to what it was supposed to be. THE LAND OF THE FREE! Anyway I guess with all the polls, media, and law suits against us and the gun manufacturers, I just want to be assured in some way that we will not lay down and keep taking this garbage until it is too late.

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Until the antis put a sign in their front yard that says they don't own guns, they are riding on the shirt-tail of the safety that we provide by owning them.
 
By the way I am heading to Texas tomorrow and I will not have the chance to read any replies until Monday morning or maybe Sunday night. Thanks.
 
HukeOKC: There are many shooters who have only recently recognized the real threat that exists regarding our rights. Before this topic gets moved to Legal/Political, I just want to say to the those of you who may not be paying close attention, get started now!
The anti movement is moving at warp speed now, up from 100mph just eight years ago.
Get informed, then talk to as many gun owners
(or people who don't own guns but are open to
hear your arguments). Get involved politically and, by that, I don't just mean voting.

Eight years ago if someone had told you that we were going to see handguns banned outright, you would have thought that person was nuts. Well, a lot has changed in eight years, and an outright ban is an idea that's on the front burner. And handgun bans are just the beginning.

Don't sit this fight out. Please.

Dick
 
It's depressing, isn't it? All we're really doing is prolonging the death of the 2nd ammendment. We will loose, I'm convinced of it; we can only control if it occurs in the near term or the far term.

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
 
I hate to sound in with the voice of doom and gloom, but unfortunately, history is on the side of the antis. They will most likely become more outspoken in the demands for a total ban on all guns and will be enthusiastically supported by a media that no longer knows or cares about the ethic of objectivity in their profession and a public who by and large are ignorant of the concept of individual liberty as defined in our Constitution. John Q. Public has become complacent because the economy is good and we no longer have a perceived external threat. Much has been written about this subject and I won't try to improve on the commentaries of those who are better versed and more articulate than me. Suffice it to say that this debate is no longer about guns; rather, it is about the roles of the state and the individual in society, and some of the more radical antis will freely admit this, although most will not. This does not mean you should give up. Rather, you should be even more zealous in your determination to peacably make your voice known. And you should find comfort in the fact that millions share your very sentiments, including many in LE and the military.

I personally believe that some type of armed confrontation is inevitable, almost a mathematical certainty at this point. You cannot have two groups with such diametrically opposing viewpoints on the issue of personal liberty continue to coexist without some type of understanding between them. And at this point, the antis are in no mood to listen to anything except their own selfish rhetoric. As far as how large the scope of such a confrontation will be, and the public reaction to it, I have no idea. It could be a wakeup call for many to the everpresent danger of excesses by those in power, or it could fall on deaf ears. I hope I am wrong, but like I said, history says otherwise.
 
I think it will be one gun owner at a time...followed by more legislation...to ban certain firearms....public displays of "arsenals"...followed by enough arrests to cause some of us to bury stuff.....which...in effect will almost have the same effect of an outright ban. Maybe one or two "crazies" will attempt to fight BATF or FBI.....body bags....on the evening news...public displays of arsenals.....etc...etc...etc.. :( :(
 
I personally believe that some type of armed confrontation is inevitable, almost a mathematical certainty at this point.

I agree. The tide has turned against personal freedom in the United States. I think the only thing that can save the tree of liberty at this point is blood. Things are going to get much,much worse before they get better.
 
What is happening in California and Mass.and New Jersy and Maryland and Conn. today will be happening in other states in 10 years or sooner, depending on how many second ammendment people are in the particular state involved.

Conn is bad but could be a lot worst if the anti gunners had their way unopposed.

Conn has trigger lock laws with extreemly steep penalities when a unlocked gun causes injury or death since 1993.

Gun shows are almost dead in Conn. and will be deceased after this summer.

All facilities
belonging to Ct. towns are refusing booking of gun shows and unelse private facilities are located ; no more Ct.gun shows.

Ct has "turn in your neighbor law" where
they arrest not the owner but rather the entire gun collection when some one phones in
an unsubstainiated "tip" that you were seen
comming home from hunting with a shot gun ,
or were "seen" with some other firearm.

No crime , no wrong doing on the part of the gun owner need have occured.

All that is
required is that you be "seen" with a firearm.

We recomend gun cases be used at all times in Conn. to avoid being "seen".

Beware of being "seen" inside the walls of your own home.

Being inside your home is no defense from being "seen" by anti civil rights firearm bigots.

Do not allow access to you home by anti
civil firearm rights bigots.

Your only defense is to ask anyone comming into your home or car if they are anti gun and if the answer is yes; do not allow them access to your home unelse all your fire arms are boxed or cased or in a gun safe.

The Big Brother Thought Police Anti Civil Rights Gun Bigots are alive and well in Conn.
The Constitution State ; that is ,the constitution as wished for by Bill Clinton,Al Gore,Charles Schoomer and Sarra Braidy.

The latest fight here in Conn., the gun bigot's Constitution State,is that we are paying the state for pistol permits for CCW BUT they keep adding to the list of places where CCW carry is illegal.

Soon , we will only be able to CCW back and forth to the target range and no where else.

CCw is currenly illegal in any private business that posts a revolver inside a red circle with a red slash, in any town owned public building or ramp grague or park or parking lot and soon, if we loose this current political fight, in all state buildings, and state parking and other state owned property.

So like I said, the CCW permit is reduced to being a State range transport pass for firearms; it just does not yet say so on the
front of the permit.

In Conn. never ever let a firearm be seen
and work on the assumption that it is better to be tried by 12 than buried by 6.

Best Regards from
Conn., the gun bigot's Constitution State.
 
"In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
as modest stillness and humility.
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
then imitate the action of the tiger.
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
disguise fair nature with hard-favored rage;
then lend the eye a terrible aspect.

Viva La Resistance!!!!




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Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
Join us in Washington, DC on Mother's Day or organize an event in your town. The Second Amendment Sisters have the right idea. You have to take the fight out into the open.

I don't want to see this turned into an armed confrontation if we can avoid it by mobilizing OUR forces NOW!
www.sas-aim.org

Check it out!
 
Well......the 2nd amendment was written specifically to enable drastic change when conditions become intolerable.

Next step?????
 
I don't want to see this turned into an armed confrontation if we can avoid it by mobilizing OUR forces NOW!

Sally,

I admire your efforts, but I truly think that non-statist issues advocacy is just about futile. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Any type of armed confrontation will be unsuccessful and will only give more ammo to the antis.

Mr.X said, "...one or two ‘crazies’ will attempt to fight BATF or FBI.....body bags....on the evening news...public displays of arsenals.....etc...etc...etc..." Very true. It’s already happened. Remember Ruby Ridge?

OK, want to make it more than one or two in an armed confrontation? How about this as a possibility:
"...anti-government literature and a massive arsenal of weapons and ammunition were seized today from a group calling themselves, ‘the seedlings of liberty.’ It was reported that this militia group was plotting to attack the Statehouse next Thursday. The Governor has vowed to push through a ban on all ammunition and guns larger than .22 cal. and it appears that he has the votes to get it."

Does anyone really think that the Feds wouldn’t call in the military if an organized, armed confrontation were attempted? The Posse Comitatus act would give you as much protection as a restraining order gives a woman who is being stalked. Remember Waco?

Any type of armed confrontation will be unsuccessful and will only give more ammo to the antis.

rock_jock said, ...history is on the side of the antis. They will most likely become more outspoken in the demands for a total ban on all guns and will be enthusiastically supported..." Very true. It is also true that, "this debate is no longer about guns." It is about personal liberty and usurpation of power and governmental control of the minds of the people via the media.

If we rule out armed confrontation, what can we do?

Write letters to Editors, Congressmen, Governors, the President? Yes.
Organize and attend rallies, demonstrations and public hearings? Yes.
Join the NRA, GOA, SAF, JPFO, SAS, etc? Yes.
Boycott anti-gun companies, including gun makers? Yes.
Vote for the lesser of two evils on election day? Yes.

Where will all that get us? It’s already gotten us right where we are now.

What else can we do? I’m working on a few ideas, but I’d also like to hear more alternatives from members.

We seem to concentrate on national elections and issues. Local elections can still be swayed by a few hundred dedicated campaigners. Perhaps we should push for the election of local officials and judges who are pro-constitution. If they are any good at their jobs, they’ll quickly run for, or be appointed to, positions of higher responsibility. Local mayors often end up in the state or federal legislature where they can affect proposed laws. Judges (and juries) are our best bet to have unconstitutional gun laws struck down. Anyone know of any unconstitutional gun laws being successfully repealed through congress?


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

[This message has been edited by TheBluesMan (edited April 13, 2000).]
 
Bluesman, one admittedly small thing we could do is to not have threads like these moved from other forums to Legal/Polical. There are a lot of posters on other forums who don't come here because, as Schmit said (and I'm not attacking him, nor would I ever _want_ to try ;) ) it's too "depressing." But it's not depressing, it's infuriating. And furor begets action. Isn't there some way to keep an RKBA topic alive on the other forums?

Armed insurrection, as appealing as it may be in our daydreams, is not a workable solution, at least not at this point. The more we can educate people, and the more we can get our facts out in public, the more people will agree with us.

I wonder what the press would report if, after registration was required, nobody showed up? What if there was just one big FU
on the part of gunowners?

Just thinking out loud.

Dick
 
If a group had the MONEY, NUMBERS, DEDICATION and ORGANIZATION to win a "civil" or "revolutionary" war, the group could politically elimiante any gun control scheme they wanted. If a group could actually win by violence in this country, they could also win much more easily politically.
 
BluesMan,

I agree with you that we need to be more involved in making our voices heard. Public displays of our opposition to gun control, like rallies and marches, are excellent ways to visibly make a statement that the pro-RKBA movement is not dominated by fringe lunatics. The day is NOW, not in the future, that we need to do things like that. The biggest obstacle is gun owners themselves, who traditionally just want to left alone and therefore have an aversion to the tactics of the liberal crowd. But we should remember how successful our enemies have been using these tactics. I still have a glimmer of hope about our chances (of swaying the hearts and minds of society), but not much.

"Any type of armed confrontation will be unsuccessful and will only give more ammo to the antis."

In response to this statement, I have to strongly disagree. Consider the following:

1) There are 60 million gun owners in the US. Hypothetically speaking, if only 5% of those were willing to take up their arms in a struggle with the govt., this would still be 3 million people, a number greater than the cobmined total of our active military forces (believe me, this is something the Klintonistas have already considered);

2) Many of those in the military have similar mindsets as we do (especially those who have seen the effects of tyranny in other countries, and remember that the percentage of the military that have "conservative" viewpoints is higher than that of the general public). I am not suggesting that it is even close to a majority, but even if it were again only 5%, the effects on the military capability would be devastating if these people followed their conscience when having to decide who were the true enemies of the Constitution in an armed conflict. This is truer today than at any point in our recent history what with the poorly staffed combat and support units resulting from military cutbacks.

3) Ditto the same argument for law enforcement. I know that many in this group, including even entire departments, might refuse to comply with federal dictates.

4) Ditto the same argument for a small number of state governors (maybe not, but I wouldn't be surprised given the level of animosity between the political parties).

5) The lessons of the Vietnam war taught us one thing if nothing else - it is nearly impossible to subdue your enemy when they are all around you and cannot be readily identified, i.e., when they blend into the background.

6) Finally, one only needs to look at what happened in the Eastern Bloc nations ten years ago, and in Russia in the 90s. Small numbers of people successfully bringing powerful governments to their knees. And this in countries with no RKBA.

I hope I am wrong about an armed conflict. But if I am not, then this nation will either return to state of liberty orginally envisioned by the Founding Fathers, or be devastated in the process.
 
From JC's Shogun. (paraphrased)

"There is no excuse for treason." (fill in the blank/s)

"There is. If you win."
 
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