I am in need of expert advice!

G

GustheSig

New member
Hey everyone. I am brand new to this forum and I just want to say that so far, after reading some things, it seems like a great place. Let me start off by saying that I am a soon-to-be graduating senior from college going on to grad school to pursue my goals, and that I have been shooting for over a decade. I am currently 23 years old and am in need of some advice. I have several wish lists (as many gun enthusiasts do), but I am in focusing on one that I have wanted for a very long time: long range bolt action build. Currently, I hunt mainly with my guns, but only recently have I began to get involved with some target shooting, since hunting season here in Tennessee is off for a while. As I have gone further and further into it, I am beginning to enjoy it more and more; so much that I wouldn't mind having a tack-driver of my own built for that purpose. I used to think I would like to hunt with a bolt years ago, but my BAR does the job :D.

I know that many people have different opinions about which brand is best and what not. I, too, and biased towards a few, but I am looking at building a professional, long range, shooter that I can shoot with confidence and have excellet MOAs. In theory, I would love this with the added bonus of it not costing an arm and a leg (minus glass, because that is where the dollars will drop), but I am curious: where should I start? Start with a basic savage, remington, weatherby, etc...? I am looking at possibly entering into some F/tr or F open shoots if I can find some. Weight used to be a big factor for me, but since this will be a gun I will mainly use in prone and on a bench, I don't really care. Should I start with a complete gun or should I build from the ground up? Any suggestions would help! Again, thanks for the suggestions and comments in advance!
 
Don't you know? Everyone is an expert here.

What is an excellent MOA? MOA is a unit of measurement...I'm not sure if it can be excellent. I have a savage predator hunter in 6.5 CM that was sub moa out of the box. There's also different divisions of f class, if I remember correctly. I think one only shoots .308 and .223, while the other I heard about the .243 and .260 calibers rule the roost. If f class is what you want to do, might want to research that.

I think the cheapest you can get a serious f class rifle for is about $1000. That'd be getting an action (stevens) putting a krieger or leija barrel on it, a decent stock, and having the action blue printed, stock bedded, and a good trigger. There's a guy who did an article about it somewhere on this information highway.
 
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Yes, I completely forgot that the internet is full of experts and that there are those that even send you magical information inquiring about your credit card information....

Excellent MOA: AKA, frequent MOAs. I want to expect the best from my rifle, as I expect the best from myself. As far as calibers go, I had rather stick to the .223 or .308. I already have a .308, but that is my hunting rifle, and wouldn't mind getting another .308. Solid round.

Thank you for your input as to where to start. I read that the savages are excellent rifles; I personally have never shot or owned one. I have a remington or two lying around, but they are nothing to seriously brag about. Any more directions I should look into?
 
Gus, the Remington action is a solid action, and is the basis for quite a few excellent rifles. The Savage action is the one that is most easily customizable; you can swap the barrels yourself with a minimum of fuss and bother, as long as you have the proper tools.

As far as accuracy, I would recommend that you start with the ammunition. Find something that shoots well out of your rifle, whether it is a hand load or a factory round. For a factory round, and for use as a control round, I have not found a cartridge yet (factory) that will outshoot Federal Gold Medal Match.

If you're going for long range, I'd recommend the 175 grain bullet. (If you're going to stick with .308.)

Next, a simple but carefully applied bedding job can work wonders for you. Ideally, the bedding job alone should yield sub-MOA groups. This, of course, also involves a good stock--again, one that is comfortable for you to shoot.

After this, it starts getting REALLY pricey. But, in the hands of a capable riflesmith, you can achieve surprisingly good accuracy from the rifle. Truing and blueprinting the action is done; a precision ground lug is installed, along with a good barrel cut with a match chamber. The trigger is also adjusted.

All of this is costly, and it will take a capable builder some time to build the rifle. But--with a good scope--you'll get a rifle that will shoot better than your wildest dreams.

You could even go whole hog--start from scratch with a Kelby, BAT machine, Nesika Bay or Surgeon action, a Jewell or Geissele trigger, and specify a Kreiger, Obermeyer or Bartlein cut-rifled barrel, in a McMillan or Manners stock.

Savage also manufactures a competition action in different configurations--right bolt and port, left bolt and port or any variation of those.
 
Thanks! I greatly appreciate the help. :) I was originally looking at JP for the barrel, but I will pay closer attention to Kreiger. I have a gunsmith buddy that shoots at competitions and is very capable (been in the business for 4 decades) and he could probably help me out. I used to be one of those AR fan boys in terms of higher calibers, but I have yet to own a solid bolt action and would love to see it in my safe.
 
As Educated as you are It surpises me that you would turn to a message forum for expert advice.:) On the other hand it could be that your smart eneough to know where to look.:D
You can get a good basic long range Rifle as close as your nearest sporting goods store, just because alot of shooters are hung up on 100 yards from a vise dosnt mean thats all the rifle can do.
But to speed things up, if you want an inexpensive rifle, the basic Savage or Weatherby Vanguard will work well for you. I recomend the .308 Winchester Cartridge, its probably the cheapest to shoot, and you will get alot of practice, Its also very capable of good accuracy out to 800 yards or so. Good luck.
 
Currently, I have to say that Savage is the LEGO of the bolt action world.
It's hard to beat the .308 as a do-all accuracy round.
"Building" a long range rifle is very expensive compared to buying one of the competition/varmint type production rifles.
 
GustheSig, Since you have a buddy who's a gunsmith and shoot competition he be the first person I'd be talking to.

when I started BR I had help and this isn't because I was lacking funds but I got a starter BR rifle learned how to load and was a good practice rifle. After I learned few things then I had things build.

there is always good used Match rifles for sale.
 
I am in no way an expert but for your purposes a newer remington is out of the question. older remington 700s were very accurate but as costs have been cut, so has accuracy. I inhereted my fathers mid 80s remington 700 and it's about 1-1.5 MOA with good ammo and my cheap optics. weatherby Vanguard IIs are apparently guarantied to be MOA out of the box. I have a Vanguard 1 that was MOA out of the box so I would be fairly willing to believe the claims.
 
There are assorted Mid- and Long-Range matches in Tennessee at Oak Ridge, Tullahoma, and Memphis that I know of for sure. I don't know if Chatanooga is currently active but they have had shoots out to 500 yards.
I have shot F-T/R in Tullahoma and Memphis, never made it to OR.
I shot alongside F-Open, Match Rifle, Service Rifle, and Palma shooters, so you can pick your game.

I have a Savage with a number of modifications... stuff now available from the factory in their F and Palma rifles.
 
Greatly appreciate the input everyone. I live about 2 hours north of Memphis, so that wouldn't be too bad. I will be going through my smith buddy, but I was just trying to get an idea around in my head in terms of what I should be looking into. He will make suggestions, but I want to be prepared to his suggestions. From what I have gathered on here, it seems that everyone is fairly knowledgeable, so no doubt that I will hear similar things from him :D

I did some research on Savage and I gotta say they seem to be pretty good out of the box and there seems to be quite a bit of aftermarket things out for them. As stated before, I have never shot a Savage. I have shot Remingtons, and my current deer rifle I enjoy is a Browning BAR safari in .308. I am very familiar with the .308, so I wouldn't mind getting it in that. I do not reload, hence my caliber decisions. I don't want to be out the money for a 338; reloading for that thing would be a must. I used to own an AR or two, but I sold them off due to it being highly impractical for me, since besides hunting, I target shoot 250 max (I did with that gun) and I don't exactly need an "assault weapon" for that and the occasional invading 2-liter lol.

Basically I am looking for longer range than the AR provided me. It was a 5.56. Good gun, (was a Rock River), but it weighed a crap ton to carry around for coyote hunts (sit on a hillside). I much prefer my laziness to take over and sit prone for 35 minutes or so :cool:

I will try to read up some more, and I greatly appreciate all of the feed back. Great community here!
 
"If you got the money honey",,,, you have the world (of long range rifles) at your fingertips. If you have the bucks and want to build a custom longranger, then by all means pick a solid action for starters, then pick a caliber that'll match up to what your needs are. Then contact a Good smith and get it going.
This forum is full of experienced helper and analysist type and even some good smiths, but your work has just begun to get interesting. See not half of us are going to agree on what the very best actions, barrels, calibers, etc.:o
It's just the way it is.

Look young man here's my philosophy,(so to speak) on the matter, if I have the money to be accurate to long range,(600-1000 yds) I'd probably have a rifle built. There are many precision longrange rifle companies around, but the money is very stiff,, say 2400 and up, for a ready built long range shooter.
If its names of longrange rifle companies you want post that reply. If it advice on what to start with on your own then my answer is going to be Savage action as they are the easiest to work up on your own,(like many mentioned before) But I couldn't take anything away from the Rem. 700 action,(man there's been ton's of deadly accurate 700 actions built) I do like some of the commercial rifles that Remington has like the LE, types or the 5r's.

It really depends on you...;)
 
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I know that there are a lot of folks out there that really like the 308 ... and if you aren't going to hand load, maybe it is a good choice. BUT ... if you are willing to load your own, you owe it to yourself to look at options that give you more flexibility with picking high BC projectiles. The 6.5mm and the 7mm offerings are pretty impressive in this respect. A 7mm-08 (or the Ackley Improved version of it) gives you higher velocities than a 308WIN with much better wind bucking potential.

When you start to talk long range, velocity only matters when you get to the point where you go transonic (1100yds ... 1200 yds ... depends on the bullet) but the BC always affects how the wind will carry you off target ... and wind is the one thing that is hard to measure as the range gets longer. Personally, I look for the bullets I want to throw downrange, then I find the platform that will throw them.

Saands
 
Yep. Using a custom gun, with factory ammo will put you at a huge disadvantage againt guys handloading the 6 through 7mm's.

243Win might be alright if you get a fast twist and find some factory rounds loaded with the 105gr match bullets.

My 6XC won't be done for months:(
 
The Memphis range is 600 yards, so they hold Mid-Range matches (Long Range is 800+.) shooting at 300, 500, 600 yards.

A GOOD .223 will hold its own at 600. Just ask the Service Rifle shooters who have moved the M14/M1A into the nostalgia category with their mouse guns.
A good .308 will do just fine.
Factory match ammunition is available for both.
Black Hills is pretty good if you don't handload and don't whine about the price of competitive ammunition.
.223x75 gr is $43/50, $780/1000 at Midway
.308x175gr is $32/20, $740/500 at Midway.
 
I STRONGLY agree with MRAWESOME22.
Not saying it can't be done with some good factory ammo (Gold Medal Match, Blackhills, etc..), but if you're going to do serious comp shooting, reloading is a good thing to go ahead and get into. As earlier stated in the post, you will be at a serious disadvantage when shooting in a match.

But as to your main question, accurateshooter.com is the place to explore. As for me, I love the remington 700 action. They are hard to beat when blueprinted and fit with a good barrel by a competent smith. I have one that shoots oddly great that isn't blueprinted, just a squared up face.

My favorite barrel is probably my Pac-Nor. It's a super select match grade. They do very good work. And if you want you can send them a receiver and for an extra but reasonable cost, they can chamber, headspace, and fit your barrel to your receiver.

Your possibilities are endless.
Hope I helped without saying too much.
Shoot straight.
 
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