I am a noobs noob!

[Bulldawg55]

I have a G20 and for me it's a bit big for ccw. It may not be an issue for you. I've had the G20 hog hunting and it performed quite well. For where a 6" barrel length requirement exists, there are 6" drop in barrels available. For cheap practice and plinking 22 conversion units are also available.

As far as ccw, a full size 1911 is considerably thinner than the Glock. Marvel 22 conversions give match grade performance and for hunting you could add a 460 Rowland conversion which produces as much or more energy than a 44mag. I have the Marvel and have been considering the 460 Rowland myself! With a SA GI and a few add ons you could have all the bases covered!
If you want adjustable sights with the 460 Roland set up, your base gun needs to have them. The Marvel unit comes with adjustable sights.

Lots of options to consider! Good luck and be safe.

 

[Jim March]

Here's an interesting tidbit about modern double-action ("DA") revolvers.

They're the safest handgun type you can own, in terms of reduced risk of accidental discharge.

It is easier to check whether or not the gun is unloaded, and doing so doesn't pose any risk of a discharge. When the NYPD went from DA wheelguns to Glocks their accident rate went up by a fair amount.

With an autoloader, in order to check to see if the chamber is empty, you have to rack the slide back and peer in. Best practice is to lock it open and stick your pinkie in the back of the barrel. But if you've screwed up and left a loaded mag in, the act of letting it rack forward will load it. Ooops.

If you drop the loaded mag out, there's still one in the chamber. That nails people once in a while.

On a Glock in particular, part of the take-down process for cleaning is to pull the trigger. I sure hope you successfully unloaded it first...accidents "while cleaning" are fairly common with Glocks for this reason.

With a DA wheelgun, once you swing that cylinder out the loaded/unloaded state is pretty obvious.

Another key safety issue: get a quality holster molded to the gun (leather or kydex are both fine) that covers the triggerguard and does NOT have a "retension strap" across the back. On re-holstering that strap can get into the triggerguard and crank a round off.

(Another thing that sometimes gets into the trigger: those plastic spring-loaded "barrel" cord retainer things on a typical "windbreaker" type jacket like the FBI is so fond of. Yeah, that's a bad idea. Avoid "dangly stuff" anywhere near your boomthing.)

A DA wheelgun in 357 carried in a good holster will get you out of more potential trouble than most people realize. It's fast to get at, has a straight-up "point and shoot" interface and won't jam. You can also feed it a huge variety of "power levels" of ammo, from range/plinking stuff around 175 to 200 ft/lbs energy to 38+P combat loads (250-300ft/lbs energy) to standard 357 defense loads (anywhere from 350ft/lbs on the low end to 750+ monsters) to big hardcast hunting loads (650-800ft/lbs energy), all from the same gun.

In comparison, 9mm combat ammo runs from 350-425ft/lbs energy, 40S&W peaks at around 550 and 45ACP tops out around 450-500 range. High-end 357 loads smoke 'em all in terms of both effectiveness and energy levels. (Raw energy doesn't tell the whole story regarding stopping power, but it's a useful comparison point.)

In an autoloader the 10mm can keep up with the 357 and a few loads beat it by a bit. But then you have no option to shoot lower-powered stuff. An auto uses the mechanical energy of the first shot to load the second, and so on...so you have both a "power floor" (to operate the gun) and a "power ceiling" (before it blows up). In a revolver, there's no "floor". The gun will shoot mild stuff no problem. Hell, you can take a shell with a primer in it and no gunpowder, scoop up some cheap candle wax with the shell, and shoot them at cardboard targets in your living room if you want .

The advantages of a wheelgun are legion. The odds you'll need more than five or six shots to solve a problem are miniscule, if you're a "regular Joe" who isn't living in a total urban war zone.

One more safety note: any quality DA revolver from Colt, S&W, Ruger or even (sigh) Taurus made after WW2 will be "drop safe" - it won't go boom if accidentally dropped. It will have either a "hammer block" mechanism or a "transfer bar" safety. Both work just fine, preventing the firing pin from contacting the back of the bullet unless a full deliberate trigger pull is performed. The key to safety with these guns is to keep anything unwanted off the trigger, which is why you must use a holster with a covered triggerguard. Quality modern autoloader handguns (including the Glocks) will work the same way: they will not go boom if dropped and a covered triggerguard is crucial.

Full disclosure: my daily carry is a six-shot 357 wheelgun, but I'm a weirdo who's gone even more "retro" - mine is a single action revolver, basically a modernized near-clone of an 1873 Colt . This means my accuracy goes up, my speed speed on the first shot is excellent, speed on successive shots is a bit down, speed of reload completely sucks . For most folks a DA wheelgun is a better answer, my type of critter takes major amounts of practice to get decent with, far more than with a modern DA. One oddity: because an SA trigger has no effect at all until the hammer is cocked, controlling the hammer is more important than controlling the trigger. The holster I made for my gun has a fully exposed triggerguard, which is considered safe for this type of action. I mention this only to illustrate that to a degree, how a gun's safe operation works is unique to the gun type, and you need to understand how the safety systems work in any gun you buy.

 

[Sixer]

Love my Glock 23... It was my first handgun and it's still the one I go to most often for daily carry.

Can't go wrong with it

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

With an autoloader, in order to check to see if the chamber is empty, you have to rack the slide back and peer in. Best practice is to lock it open and stick your pinkie in the back of the barrel. But if you've screwed up and left a loaded mag in, the act of letting it rack forward will load it. Ooops.

If you drop the loaded mag out, there's still one in the chamber. That nails people once in a while.

On a Glock in particular, part of the take-down process for cleaning is to pull the trigger. I sure hope you successfully unloaded it first...accidents "while cleaning" are fairly common with Glocks for this reason.

The external extractor on Glock (and other) semi-autos serves as a loaded chamber indicator.

A Glock can be visually checked just like a revolver. It's not as "obvious" perhaps, but it's no harder. Is there a mag inserted? Is the extractor below flush with the frame? If the extractor "sticks out", it's loaded. If not, rack the slide and verify.

Always verify, no matter the gun.

 

[jimbob86]

I guess I dont really think I will go through that many rounds a month.

Heh. Kinda like potato chips that way: "I ate the whole bag?!?!?!?

If you don't handload there will be days when you wish you had money to buy bullets to go shoot.

If you handload there will be days where you wish you had time to put more bullets together before you go shoot.

 

[Lothar]

I used to be pretty satisfied with the snubby in .38 +P. Then I started reading about how many home invasions are committed by multiple perps. That got me thinking about my 1911 in .45ACP with an extra mag handy, or now, my M&P9 Pro. I have FO front sight on the M&P and adjustable target sights on the 1911. With some HP rounds, I like the round count with the M&P if a band of merry felons darken my door and start making their way in.

 

[Joe_Pike]

my mother felt it was a bad idea to allow me to have guns and point them at people.

Well, your mother is right about that.

And, whatever gun you choose out of the good suggestions offered here so far, I would suggest that you should stay away from all of the older Smith & Wesson wheelguns. Especially the nice blued ones. And, please let me know where you see them, so, I can stay away from them also.

 

[Pvt. Pyle]

Wow, I read this at school today and dont know what I want even worse? Is that how you'd say that?

Anyway thank you for all the suggestions, I definitely have a lot of holding, reading, and shooting left to do before I actually purchase.

More of you guys are saying to go for the .357, a little less are saying a Glock would do it all. Whats the story on the lack of 1911 love? Is it out of the question just because of the hunting aspect?

As I read more and more into it, Im getting the feeling the 1911s would be like the weekend street machine that only gets busted out when the conditions are perfect!


8shot357 - I live in the Omaha Metro area. I would love to meet up with some guys and absorb knowledge and possibly even go shooting. No need to worry about me robbing anyone! I have had my truck gone through twice right outside my house and pop a gasket every time it happens. I now double check all our cars outside so it doesn't happen again as I lost over $1000 worth of goods. I am looking into a handgun because apparently where I live is getting worse and worse, and I want to stay ahead of the curve.

+1 LordTio3 - Thank you for so much information, breaking down the top two runners in my decision. I feel your post single handedly made my decision harder.

+1 Jim March - Thank you for the post as well. Going in depth on carrying and how to carry. I believe I will leave shooting one's self in the foot because of "dangly things" to the FBI!


Thanks to everybody for posting and giving their two cents. And for a very warm welcome! I stumbled across this place, and it looks like I stumbled across the right place!

 

[8shot357]

8shot357 - I live in the Omaha Metro area.

Maybe you should start a new post to find people with guns in your area.

 

[Jim March]

Pvt. Pyle: it's impossible to talk about gun safety without talking about the holster as part of the overall safety system. A lot of people never catch onto that. I build all my own holsters and make a few for friends.

 

[LordTio3]

Whats the story on the lack of 1911 love? Is it out of the question just because of the hunting aspect?

Well, while you can find 1911's that have barrels longer than 6" (not a lot) they are kind of uncommon (Mil-Spec = 5", Commander = 4", Officer = 3"). Couple that with the common law regarding using a 6" barrel or longer to hunt, and you've got yourself a gun you can't hunt with.

Personally, I'd really recommend disregarding this aspect of your consideration. Hunting with a pistol isn't really for beginners. It's actually quite challenging for even seasoned shooters, and it's kind of a venue that "opens up" as your skill level increases with your enjoyment of hunting.

Plus, not a whole lot of people want to take a beautiful 1911 out hunting through the branches, weeds, sticks to get scratched and boogered up.

That being said, a 1911 is a fantastic pistol design for just about any purpose (CCW, Law Enforcement duty, Home Defense, Military duty, competition, target shooting, etc...) They are just great guns and they've been around forever. The reason I don't think many people have said much about them here is that they are a though nut to put in a shell. I'll give it a quick shot.

There are a Bazillion 1911 variants out there; all built on JM Browning's design, but all built for different purposes. Just about everyone makes a 1911 variant. You can spend anywhere from $300 to $5,000+ depending on what you want, and what you want it for. They come in .45acp, .38super, .9mm, and a couple of other small-market calibers; steel frames, aluminum, scandium, titanium, etc...; Barrel lengths from 7" to 3"; have 100 different things about the gun that you can customize with literally thousands of different custom parts...

They are accurate, slim, and heavy (unless aluminum/titanium/etc...). They operate (usually) on a Single Action design meaning that the triggers feel good and don't travel far. They have a limited capacity (usually) because of their single-stacked magazines, limiting you to ~7-8+1 rounds. That's not a whole lot of ammo by today's standards, but the weapon design is solid and easy to shoot accurately.

Suffice it to say that "1911's" have a HUGE market-share. As a new consumer, you could get anything from an incredibly expensive Safe Queen to a standard Work Horse.

Difference:
Safe Queen-

Work Horse-

Honestly, if you were thinking hard about the 1911 design for carry, I'd be a fool to advise you against it. But there are a few things to know...

1. 5" is a long barrel to carry concealed. 4" is much easier. I don't know any CCW citizen who has ever told me, "Man I wish I had a bigger carry gun." I've heard several say the opposite.

2. They are heavy. When compared to modern polymer pistols, many standard 1911 designs are twice as heavy or more. This means that you can't skimp on a holster. Spending $80-100 on a good holster/belt combination will do INCREDIBLE things for your comfort while carrying.

3. The standard magazines don't provide a lot of ammo, so you need to make sure to make your shots count. However, this is a trade-off that you get something for, as the single-stacked magazine makes the weapon thinner and easier to carry. Now most of the time, the 1911's have good sights and a crisp SA trigger, so it's not too difficult to shoot what ammo you have well (the 1911 design is often thought to be the most accurate pistol design available). It is a good practice to carry good quality magazines in it, and a spare.

4. They are great weapons to get and customize. If you carry your weapon for a month and don't like something, swap it out. Don't like the trigger? Buy a new one. Don't like the sights? Buy some new ones. Don't' like the grips? Go get some custom made. You can change everything about your weapon to fit you as a shooter.

If you think you might go this route, I'd start out with a "Starter 1911" from either Rock Island Armory, American Classic, or Springfield's GI or Mil-Spec models depending on how much you want to spend. They all make them in multiple lengths and you can find one that's right for you. If you're thinking of getting a really nice one, I'd wait until you have one that you can "use and abuse" and not feel terrible about scuffing your $900 Baby. With these 3 makers, you can plan to spend anywhere from $300-$500 for your base package. All companies put out reliable products that will suit you well if you take care of them.

Some Handgun Centerfolds for thought...

_________________________________________________

So, how are you feeling about your choices so far? Leaning more toward Semi-Auto or Revolver?

~LT

 

[Skans]

Get a stainless CZ-75. You can practice a lot with cheap 9mm. You will be pleased with the CZ for a long time, and if you decide you want something more tailored to your needs when you get more experienced, there will be lots of folks lined up to buy your stainless CZ-75 if you keep it nice.

 

[Pvt. Pyle]

Honestly LT, I want both. I believe after looking and thinking and such...I think I may just wait for a 1911 that I can buy as a Safe Queen. Save up for something special. SOmething worth the money in an 1911.

I went to a gun shop here tonight, and probably going back to look again tomorrow...and maybe even Sunday. For the semi, I am obviously leaning towards a G20. I was up there talking with some dealers, and when I told the guy I wanted to look at a Glock 20 he asked me black or green. I had only seen green ones in pictures, I figured they were an older style or not making the color anymore. Anyway, he gave me the black one to look at, and he pulled another case out and cut it open and it was the G20sf. I was curious so me, him, and one of his guys helping him all talked about how none of us could tell the difference between the G20 and the G20sf. All the comparing aside he finally found the last OD G20 he has and opened it up. I dont know what it was about that pistol, but seeing it in person, like everyone else, maybe its because they arent made anymore, but I fell in love. I wasnt in the position to buy it right there, so I looked at him and said, "Get this out of here, I cant look at it anymore." So we put all three away, and I carried on looking. On top of it all, it was only $509!

As for the revolver, I am narrowed in on the Ruger GP100. Which I also found for a pretty good price at the show. Had a used one for 419. And he said his new ones are around $550.

The Glock guy also had a sign that said Glock prices are now Glock retail prices, ASK for cash price. He told me that the chain stores were bitching and hes supposed to sell them at $549. But his cash price is $509. If you ask him about it. So I may have found my Glock dealer

 

[Nnobby45]

Go to a shooting range and meet some pistol shooters. Stay away from the gun store commando as far as what to buy is concerned.