Hunting License Question

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Originally posted by reynolds357:

Well Buck, I definitely do not need it the most. As a certified L.O. Sniper, I know about as much as there is to know about firearms safety and the massive liability that goes with the final resting point of each sent round.
Having said that, there was absolutely nothing taught in my class that was not just pure common sense. In addition to that, much of the information was just plain dumb. I will give you an example. Someone asked "Why do we still have to wear our orange vest once we are in the stand?". His answer was "because someone might mistake you for a turkey and shoot you." There are good reasons for wearing blaze orange in the stand, but being mistaken for a Turkey is not one of them.
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As I said, you could be the exception. Maybe your previous extensive training made the Hunter Safety Class so redundant. Yes, hunter safety is just common sense. You would think it would be easy to teach and easy to learn because there are just 4 basic rules of firearm safety, that if followed, would eliminate 99.9% of all firearm related accidents. Most folks know these rules before they attend the class, only need to be reminded of them and practice them a few times so they become habit. Good hunter Safety instructors give scenarios and circumstances to their students that the students might not encounter on a regular basis. Giving them experience and the knowledge to safely handle that scenario if encountered may save someone some grief. As I said before, I have taken the class several times and now help teach them. I still learn something in every class and generally hear of a situation someone has encountered that I haven't. Maybe having an open mind helps. The close minded folks in the classes that think they already know it all, are generally the ones I would not want to hunt beside. Again, you may be the exception.


As for the getting shot because you were mistaken for a turkey....I think it happened 4 times in my state last year. About the average since turkeys have made a comeback and hunting them has become popular. Even the NWTF advises wearing a orange vest when hunting and moving between setups or hanging a piece of blaze orange close to you when in a set-up. The purpose? To avoid being mistaken for a turkey. But then, they probably don't know much about turkey hunting and hunter safety either.
 
sigh...
taken straight from kansas DNR/F&G/F&W website.
Youth 15 and younger may hunt without hunter education if directly supervised by an adult 18 or older. Anyone 16 or older may purchase a one-time deferral of hunter education, called an apprentice hunting license, for the same price as a regular hunting license. This license is valid only through the calendar year in which it is purchased, and the holder
must be under the direct supervision of a licensed adult 18 or older.

Hunter education is
not required while hunting one’s own land. Otherwise, anyone born on or after July 1, 1957, must have hunter education. Anyone under 27 years old must carry a Kansas or other state approved hunter education card while hunting. In Kansas, you must be 11 years old to be certified, and may not hunt without adult supervision until 12. Duplicate certificates may be purchased for $11.50 at department offices; $11.75 online
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so if you are hunting on your own land or are over the age of 27 you don't have to have your hunters ed card on you.
 
I think there is a huge mistake in assuming that "Firearms Safety Training" and "Hunter Education" are the same thing and therefore, if you are well versed in one, the other is not useful.

I've sat through two of these courses with kids, one ten years ago, and one about 20 years ago, and I started hunting over 40 years ago, and I have learned something each time. I have also heard things I dsiagreed with each time. I guess that just means that whether you are instructor or student, there are always things to learn, even about that which you already know well.
 
I think there is a huge mistake in assuming that "Firearms Safety Training" and "Hunter Education" are the same thing and therefore, if you are well versed in one, the other is not useful.
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not necessarily. I've taken both. my particular hunters ed was mostly basic survival and state hunting regulations, along with some firearms safety, where to aim on the animal, and basic methodologies ETC. firearms safety courses teach you mostly how not to be a moron around firearms and help you unlearn, or avoid learning bad habits, with some accuracy training mixed in.

weapons safety training does nothing to help you learn local regs, survival techniques, and where to shoot the animal, and hunters ed does little to teach you firearms safety except how to memorize the 4 basic rules of firearm safety.

there are some courses however that do a good job of blending the two and would be best served to use. my state however is an odd duck. when I applied for my concealed weapons permit, they would not take my weapons qualification cards from the military but they did accept my hunters ed card... hunters ed would have been completely useless in teaching me how to properly handle a handgun.
 
so why not just keep it your billfold? a hunter safety card surely doesn't take up much more space than a drivers license
 
I've been teaching Hunter Ed for about 13-14 years now and to be honest have learned something new every year. Some of it good, some of it bad and some funny as heck.
The last couple of years they've gone to a computerized class system that frankly I think flat out sucks. There's very few doing face to face classes any more so the only "hands on" experience with the kids is on range day. Also, the new book almost totally ignores handgun hunting which just happened to be one of two subjects I specialized in. I assisted with the rifle portion and did the entire handgun section that not only covered the types or handguns and general stuff but added a very comprehensive ID and safety segment. Must have been halfway decent because mothers with little or no interest were the best students and they weren't even part of the class. Seems better than half wanted some idea of what to but and then to learn how to use it. Apparently, according to the powers in Hunter Ed up in Phoenix, the changes in the manual were mandated by the feds. :mad: I do wish they'd mind their own business and stay away.
Paul B.
 
Buck, I went to hunter safety when I was 12. Long before receiving extensive training. It was all common sense then.
The reason wearing orange in the tree stand while deer hunting so you will not be shot for a turkey is in my opinion a stupid answer is for the following two reason:
Deer and turkey season do no overlap in Georgia.

There are many safety issues that should be addressed. I feel that most hunters are woefully unfamilliar with their equipment. They know just enough about it to make it make a loud noise. They also have very little idea how their projectile behaves. They also can't hit a jack ass in the butt at 100 yards. The class room part is just common sense. If anything, I would like to see proficiency testing.
 
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Originally posted by reynolds357:


The reason wearing orange in the tree stand while deer hunting so you will not be shot for a turkey is in my opinion a stupid answer is for the following two reason:
Deer and turkey season do no overlap in Georgia.
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...and the second one is?

You are making the assumption that everyone in the woods is as exceptional as you are when it comes to hunting and safety. If folks followed the 4 basic rules of gun safety everytime, one would not need to wear blaze orange anywhere, even during deer season. Nor would anyone be required to take a hunter safety course. But it is readily apparent that ain't the case. States don't run and require Hunter Safety courses to make monies. They generally lose money on every student in hopes of making hunting safer. Half of hunter safety is protecting yourself from the other guy, similar to defensive driving courses. You are correct, most hunters are not proficient with their weapons, nor are they really familiar with the ballistics of them. Many do not even consider ricochets and pass thrus. Most hunter safety classes try to address these things. In my state, hunter mishaps, ADs and accidental shootings of others has declined dramatically since Hunter's Education became a requirement to getting a license. This tell me, that regardless of how foolish many think it is, that it does work. Even if it is just "common sense".

After the first weekend of deer season, one hears many gun shots in the woods, and very few dead deer emerge. One reason is frustrated deer hunters shooting at fenceposts, stumps, small game and yep, Wild Turkeys, even tho they aren't in season. They also tend to shoot at movement quickly, before identifying their target, more than they do at first. It shouldn't happen but it does. Hunter safety is not just for the smartest hunter in the woods, but also for the dumbest.

We have a field day at the end of the course that all students must participate in before they get their card. It helps those new to firearms identify the various actions, where the safties are at on them and how they work. They also get to shoot rimfire, centerfire and shotguns. We do not have time, nor the monies to spend on extensive accuracy and shooting training. While we teach technique in the classroom, along with dry firing, we expect the students to practice and get proficient on their own. We are not there as a shooting competition, there are other venues for that available.
 
Years back before the compound bow my cousin used to shoot on a local club team. Every year they took on the pistol team and beat them. One year he decided to try bowhunting deer. He gave it up the first year. He told me he got so rattled with a deer close up that he missed the whole deer. Numerous times. (We hunted on the ground back then) So much for proficiency tests. I did not need the card either, but took someone else and attended the classes. The Pennsylvania Game Commission researched hunting accidents a few years back and most of the people at fault were in the hunting class exempt age group. I dunno, it may just be coincidence.
 
I hunted GA last year--their regs can be tricky. I found a real gem in their rules that I think many hunters don't know about. Managed firearm deer hunts on DNR managed properties can be few and far between and I remember there was a small game season that followed the managed hunts during which only small caliber (not legal for deer) was allowed BUT also allowed for the taking of bobcat with the use of centerfire larger calibers since they are loopholed into medium game. That allowed the carry of larger deer-legal centerfires and I figured since the state-wide deer season was still on--could we still legally take deer? I called the DNR head ranger and the answer was yes--in fact you could. Almost every hunter I asked about this said it was not legal.
 
After the first weekend of deer season, one hears many gun shots in the woods, and very few dead deer emerge. One reason is frustrated deer hunters shooting at fenceposts, stumps, small game and yep, Wild Turkeys, even tho they aren't in season. They also tend to shoot at movement quickly, before identifying their target, more than they do at first. It shouldn't happen but it does. Hunter safety is not just for the smartest hunter in the woods, but also for the dumbest.
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I hate hunters orange but you know what I would hate more? Yeah getting shot so I wear it. 30 minutes before and 30 minutes from complete darkness you and I know are the hours when every tree limb is a deer till proven otherwise. This is also why other four legged animals get shot. Lots of people have been guilty of shooting dogs and every once in a while a cow.

What about the turkey hunters that accidentally shoot their camouflaged buddy because they took a blind shot at a rustling bush.

We are surrounded by dumb people and there isn't an easy way to identify them at long distances so I guess I have to wear orange and hope they aren't around me. It has even got to the point where if I'm scouting land during any season that I have 4 orange vests stowed in different cars and bags just so i'm the safest I can be.
 
There are a lot of words like "Dumb and stupid" flying around. Although I have never been involved in or known anyone that was involved in a hunting accident, I am a firm believer that **** happens. I wonder how many of you "Smart" people were never in an automobile accident? I was in the military 3x and worked on thousands of guns. The closest I came to getting my head blown off by accident was with a shotgun, of all things. The guy with the shotgun was a higher ranking individual who sounded pretty much like some of the people on this forum. I don't remember how many accidents we had with .45's, but the guy was always in shock and standing over someone saying "It wasn't loaded". A little safety refresher is good for everyone.
 
The D-Day re-enactments seem to be more prevalent down south than up north in my experience--there are times when I've feared for my life when semi-auto fusillades were let loose nearby and I couldn't see their position (which means they likely couldn't see me). I've even encountered some really bizarre stuff like local hunters who believe a "secret honey hole" is their personal hunting domain and they might empty a few clips just to scare the deer and hunters off. I'm starting to get more active in archery-only and muzzleloading seasons for these reasons.
 
Ok so to avoid negative words what kind of word would you use to define a hunter who tells you if they see/hear a deer in the brush that they would fire a shot into the brush after 5 minutes in hopes to shoot the animal when it runs out.

It's people like this that give my wife the impression that hunters are bad. Try reversing that perception from a woman who had a dog shot and on another incident her grandma's milk cow shot.

When I was younger a bowhunter shot my dog and somehow the vet removed the arrow and the dog lived a long life.

Last year I was shot at a few times on public land and I talked to an older woman who said she was deer hunting and someone put a slug in the tree she was sitting just 6inches to a foot above her head.

I have been hunting for 20 years now and with every year it gets worse. I also chalk some of this up to the hunters who believe they can go into the woods and drink a 6 pack while hunting. We need more people to take safety more seriously and spread those habits when hunting with a group. 12 hours in a room with the dnr or state agency isn't going to prevent everything just like a 3 day slow speed motorcycle safety course isn't going to prepare you for driving with millions of people with different skill levels.
 
I have heard really crazy stories over the years, and some were actually based on fact. A few years ago we had a cow hit with about 1/2 dozen arrows in one of the lower counties. This was obviously intentional. A lady on a Farm CO-OP closed her farm to hunting after her cat made it home with an arrow in it. These are not people mistaking an animal for something else. I would not call something like that an accident. About two years back, a hunter was shot on a rainy, overcast day near here. He was on a slope covered with boulders and had put up a tarp (Blueish grey) to sit under. Another hunter shot at some deer moving past behind him and never saw him. He found him when he went to check for blood where the deer moved through. Who's fault was that? Almost every year I catch someone without orange sitting what they think is "Way back". I have heard guys say "They can't shoot you if they can't see you". A little classroom time might be in order there.
 
Hunter orange is not just for your protection, but is an ethical coutesy to other hunters who do not wish to shoot in your direction or encroach on the area you are hunting either. Gunplummer, nothing infuriates me more than being deer hunting on public land, and watching a good trail I've found months earlier, and to find out after watching that trail for several minutes, through the aid of binoculars that somebody has setup a camo tent type deer blind behind the trail, and are sitting inside with their legally required orange on that you can't see, or to be still hunting and realize you are standing 40 yards away from one with gun barrels poking out after you snapped a twig. I wish they would require something visible in orange for bow hunters in tree stands, as it is open when squirrel season is in season here in Ohio. No, I'm not worrying about mistaking a deer stand hunter for a squirrel, but I am worrying about the one 50 yard behind type squirrel that I can't see. The orange isn't to keep you from being mistaken for a turkey or anything else. It is so the person shooting at something else can see you behind their target.
 
hmmm... I haven't worn hunter's orange since I left MT 10 years ago, I guess I am an unethical hunter.

seriously guys?

maybe it's different in states that actually require orange and has had that fact beat into your head your entire life, but I have not seen a single hunter in the last 10 years, (aside from a couple bird hunters who had children with them) who wore orange. I have never been shot at, that is not to say I never will. I have been hit by ricochets but that was my own fault as much as the guy pulling the trigger. the 3rd rule of firearm safety which is taught in every single hunter's safety course in the country, is to be sure of your target and everything between and beyond. if you don't know your distance you damn well better be checking between and beyond your target before you pull that trigger and you always check your target before you pull the trigger instead of blasting at anything that moves. orange is no substitute for common sense, and requiring orange is not going to fix stupidity.
 
the 3rd rule of firearm safety which is taught in every single hunter's safety course in the country, is to be sure of your target and everything between and beyond.
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The problem with that idea is that even though you might abide by that rule religiously, there are plenty of idiots in the woods that don't. Case here in MS this week - two guys who belonged to the same hunting club were hunting the same area with each not knowing exactly where the other was. One hunter took off his orange vest for some reason and the other hunter saw movement and shot him dead. Very sad.
 
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