Hunting large birds with 2 3/4 inch rounds?
- Thread starter Deja vu
- Start date
bamaranger
New member
close
Close enough range and you can probably kill one with a .22 rat shot or a switch.
There are all sorts of things that can go wrong while you wait for a bird to get "close enough", and one is best advised to take the first good shot you get.
Here is a list of stuff that has spoiled set ups for me:
-a horse wandered in
-a cow wandered in
-coyote snuck in
-another hunter
-a deer
-a drunk on a golf cart (no lie) though the bird was not in range yet
-a power line mow crew
-a hen
-another gobbler
-etc
If you have a good shot, you better take it, things can go wrong fast. Put multiple birds on scene, and your chances of getting picked off and getting no shot go up markedly.
I am NOT advocating long shots at gobblers. My average over the years is about 30 yds. But "sub gauge" gobbler hunting, hunting gobblers with target loads and other such things mentioned (sparrows?) is just plain bad advice borders on a stunt and sensationalism, or simply makes no sense.
The object is to get a clean kill, to do that at reasonable ranges, and to be able to do that on the limited number of opportunities one may get in a season. Yes it is about the hunt. But.....if that's all it's about, , we should just trade our guns for cameras. We seldom advise anybody to use the lightest legal cartridge for deer, why does it seem that folks are advising just that for gobblers?
MINIMALLY, 1-1/4 oz of shot (the 20 ga mag will throw this, and heavy 12 ga field loads this is standard) , and 1-1/2 as in a short mag 12, is better. Hevi- "Space shot" is a wonder, but I have no experience with it, but understand it adds a complete new dimension to the 20 ga. If limited to 1-1/4 oz of shot, I would look hard at #6 lead for denser patterns.
Close enough range and you can probably kill one with a .22 rat shot or a switch.
There are all sorts of things that can go wrong while you wait for a bird to get "close enough", and one is best advised to take the first good shot you get.
Here is a list of stuff that has spoiled set ups for me:
-a horse wandered in
-a cow wandered in
-coyote snuck in
-another hunter
-a deer
-a drunk on a golf cart (no lie) though the bird was not in range yet
-a power line mow crew
-a hen
-another gobbler
-etc
If you have a good shot, you better take it, things can go wrong fast. Put multiple birds on scene, and your chances of getting picked off and getting no shot go up markedly.
I am NOT advocating long shots at gobblers. My average over the years is about 30 yds. But "sub gauge" gobbler hunting, hunting gobblers with target loads and other such things mentioned (sparrows?) is just plain bad advice borders on a stunt and sensationalism, or simply makes no sense.
The object is to get a clean kill, to do that at reasonable ranges, and to be able to do that on the limited number of opportunities one may get in a season. Yes it is about the hunt. But.....if that's all it's about, , we should just trade our guns for cameras. We seldom advise anybody to use the lightest legal cartridge for deer, why does it seem that folks are advising just that for gobblers?
MINIMALLY, 1-1/4 oz of shot (the 20 ga mag will throw this, and heavy 12 ga field loads this is standard) , and 1-1/2 as in a short mag 12, is better. Hevi- "Space shot" is a wonder, but I have no experience with it, but understand it adds a complete new dimension to the 20 ga. If limited to 1-1/4 oz of shot, I would look hard at #6 lead for denser patterns.
Sure are a fair number of turkeys killed around here by youngsters with 20 ga shotguns. More shot does NOT guarantee better patterns, one of the worst patterning loads I ever shot was a 3 inch 12 with 2 Oz of shot. One of the best was actually a heavy pheasant load beautiful pattern. Whatever you choose, pattern it so you know if it patterns well at 30 or 40 yards.
haven't used it but if it performs like flite control buckshot does this stuff would be very good.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/58...-high-velocity-box-of-10?cm_vc=ProductFinding
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/58...-high-velocity-box-of-10?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Whatever patterns well @ the range you want to call them in to .....
......folks get too wrapped up in ballistics ..... spend more time patterning your quarry and less trying to figure out a way to math them to death and you'll be more successful ...... figure out where that Tom hangs out at what times ...... get there first with some dekes and a modicum of skill with a call, and all those ballistics tables and the massive marketing campaigns that tell you you must read them will not matter 3 toots in a tornado .....
The deadliest "turkey load" I ever saw was a #8 dove load that rolled around under the seat of my g-pa's pickup for Lord knows how many years....... Turkeys are not that hard to kill if you hit them in the head and neck ......
I disagree. In 1972, I hit a rooster ringneck at 65 paces (think station 4 low-house shot), feathers flew, and the bird was badly shot up.
The gun was a 1930-ish Win Model 12 16 gauge full choke with Remington Express #7-1/2, 2-3/4" loads (home on leave from the USAF, my Dad's gun and ammo). One lucky shot, for sure. It still means that it patterned tightly enough at that range to mess that bird's day up for good (or bad, from the bird's viewpoint).
Not advocating 7-1/2 shot for turkeys; just that turkeys normally don't fly at the time a shot is taken.
Creek Henry
New member
Hey
To add some fuel to the fire... Tungsten patterns even better than lead. On some hunting forums i have read several threads about how well #15 density shot can work. With the right recipe, #6 shot 15g/cm3 is deadly out to 70 yards on turkey or even coyote. Most humters that use them stick to 2 3/4" loads to save money as they can run $4-5 per round.
Personally, i think that is pushing it but some people spend hundrds of dollars and hours working up,these loads so they have faith in what they can do.
Read up on Elmer Keith's 80 yard shotgun patterns. That guy was sometimg else. Ross Seyfried played around with this too. Amazing reading.
To add some fuel to the fire... Tungsten patterns even better than lead. On some hunting forums i have read several threads about how well #15 density shot can work. With the right recipe, #6 shot 15g/cm3 is deadly out to 70 yards on turkey or even coyote. Most humters that use them stick to 2 3/4" loads to save money as they can run $4-5 per round.
Personally, i think that is pushing it but some people spend hundrds of dollars and hours working up,these loads so they have faith in what they can do.
Read up on Elmer Keith's 80 yard shotgun patterns. That guy was sometimg else. Ross Seyfried played around with this too. Amazing reading.
bamaranger
New member
50 yds
There are guns/loads that will throw deadly looking patterns at 50 yds. But there is more to it than that.
Remember that a shotshell/gun throws its payload in a cloud (3D) not a disk, (2D) and the entire cloud may well not arrive at your turkey. Unless one is shooting at their gobbler in a perfectly open setting (possible but not the norm) there is every liklihood that there will be limbs, branches, vines grass, that will strip pellets from the cloud and thin the resulting pattern at any range. I have "missed" two gobblers that were well within range because a branch of some size was just off the muzzle by a short distance, but out of my line of sight. I blew the branch to bits, but no gobbler. This is an exaggerated example, but the point is, one may start with 1-3/4 oz of shot, but that will not necessarily be what arrives on target.
Leveling and shooting at a gobbler is far different than the controlled situation at the pattern board. You may be in an awkward position,(from assorted reasons) the gun mount compromised by a headnet, the gobbler shows up unexpectedly from an odd angle, or you may be fighting your nerves, or a combination of all the above. This can result in poor sighting and poor shooting, and a target that is fringed and not centered.
All the above supports my stance to use enough gun/shell and not to make gobbler shooting a long range proposition.
I have killed a few gobblers at 50 yds+ or so, but every one at this distance shared these things in common:
-it was wide open, as on a ROW or pasture, and I underestimated the range. I would not shoot 50 yds + by choice, these shots were by error
-I was shooting 3" shells, with 1-3/4 oz of lead shot or more, from a rifle sighted gun I had sighted and tuned carefully, with a turkey choke
-the bird was down and mine, but not really a clean kill (stomp)
Finally, it was previously mentioned that #2 (lead) shot is a good turkey load. I cannot agree. Large coarse shot does not lend itself to spring gobbler hunting, where the object is to saturate the head and neck with pellets.
We're not pass shooting geese.
There are guns/loads that will throw deadly looking patterns at 50 yds. But there is more to it than that.
Remember that a shotshell/gun throws its payload in a cloud (3D) not a disk, (2D) and the entire cloud may well not arrive at your turkey. Unless one is shooting at their gobbler in a perfectly open setting (possible but not the norm) there is every liklihood that there will be limbs, branches, vines grass, that will strip pellets from the cloud and thin the resulting pattern at any range. I have "missed" two gobblers that were well within range because a branch of some size was just off the muzzle by a short distance, but out of my line of sight. I blew the branch to bits, but no gobbler. This is an exaggerated example, but the point is, one may start with 1-3/4 oz of shot, but that will not necessarily be what arrives on target.
Leveling and shooting at a gobbler is far different than the controlled situation at the pattern board. You may be in an awkward position,(from assorted reasons) the gun mount compromised by a headnet, the gobbler shows up unexpectedly from an odd angle, or you may be fighting your nerves, or a combination of all the above. This can result in poor sighting and poor shooting, and a target that is fringed and not centered.
All the above supports my stance to use enough gun/shell and not to make gobbler shooting a long range proposition.
I have killed a few gobblers at 50 yds+ or so, but every one at this distance shared these things in common:
-it was wide open, as on a ROW or pasture, and I underestimated the range. I would not shoot 50 yds + by choice, these shots were by error
-I was shooting 3" shells, with 1-3/4 oz of lead shot or more, from a rifle sighted gun I had sighted and tuned carefully, with a turkey choke
-the bird was down and mine, but not really a clean kill (stomp)
Finally, it was previously mentioned that #2 (lead) shot is a good turkey load. I cannot agree. Large coarse shot does not lend itself to spring gobbler hunting, where the object is to saturate the head and neck with pellets.
We're not pass shooting geese.
I have not taken long shots at turkey. Using small shot I don't think it retains that much energy. I was shot a long time ago at about 80 yards with #8 shot while dove hunting, and the shot barely made it through the skin.
I did build some loads that were effective for geese out to 80 yards. I shot over 3,000 patterns, had overbored barrels, and custom bored choke tubes, handloaded buffered nickel plated shot, and practiced at 70-75 yards on high speed targets. I just liked long shots, and I wanted to make sure I was capable, and I did not want to produce cripples. Of course, right after I reached my nirvana, the damn government banned lead. I have not had the initiative to repeat the journey with tungsten alloy shot, but the results should be achievable.
I do not think the effect of shot stringing in the pattern is all that significant. The difference in velocity of the shot versus the target is too great. Yes I did read Roster's repartee and saw the targets his wife towed. Paper is flat, out quarry is 3D also.
I did build some loads that were effective for geese out to 80 yards. I shot over 3,000 patterns, had overbored barrels, and custom bored choke tubes, handloaded buffered nickel plated shot, and practiced at 70-75 yards on high speed targets. I just liked long shots, and I wanted to make sure I was capable, and I did not want to produce cripples. Of course, right after I reached my nirvana, the damn government banned lead. I have not had the initiative to repeat the journey with tungsten alloy shot, but the results should be achievable.
I do not think the effect of shot stringing in the pattern is all that significant. The difference in velocity of the shot versus the target is too great. Yes I did read Roster's repartee and saw the targets his wife towed. Paper is flat, out quarry is 3D also.
Coppershot
New member
Fiocchi makes some nice 2 3/4 loads with 1 3/8 ounces of copper # 5's. It is a dandy turkey load as long as you are on with the rest of your game.
Range has a lot to do with it. Your second sentence is true, and larger shells have more pellets, which results in higher pattern density.
How far the pellets go is a non-issue.
To address the OP's question: There are turkey loads in 2 3/4, here are several. Just realize that you won't get the same range that you would with 3" or 3.5" loads. Call the bird in to 35 yards or less and you'll have a turkey dinner.
12ga 2 3/4" 3 3/4Dr eq. 1 1/4 to 1 1/2oz shot, #4 or larger preferred. Range 40yds & under.
NO STEEL SHOT!!!!
Good luck with Grandpa's gun, what ever it is. (you should have told us!
)MY Grandpa's gun is an Ithaca SxS he bought new, and made to order for him in 1909. I use 3 1/4dr eq in that gun, and only rarely 3 3/4 dr loads, simply not needed for what I do.
Be aware that guns made before the 1950s will generally pattern tighter with modern ammo than the choke marking (if any) indicates.
Super Sneaky Steve
New member
I've killed Turkeys with everything, including the cheapest #8 target loads. They aren't that tough. A few pellets in the head and neck and it's good night turkey!
Practice with your gun and the load you are using. Know your limits and work within them.
Check your local hunting laws. Around here you're limited in the size of shot you can use.
Practice with your gun and the load you are using. Know your limits and work within them.
Check your local hunting laws. Around here you're limited in the size of shot you can use.