Hunting ethics demonstrated........proud of her!

[Brian Pfleuger]

Hogs in the south are like woodchucks in the north. Kill them all, they're nothing but trouble. Only hogs are worse, they're not even native, at least the 'chucks are supposed to be here.

 

[sureshots]

fisherman66

I agree, Ethics is not A word to use in hunting. What is ethical about killing or not killing A animal. Its more about Lawful, moral and HUMANE hunting practices. Some declare you unetichal if you use A certain caliber to hunt with. others declare you unethical if you make A bad shot or choice of bullets. Come on we're not Doctors Lawyers or Priest. We are outdoorsman, Hunters, Nature Lovers and Such.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I disagree with the word "ethics". This is about hunting "morals", not ethics; if that distinction makes sense.

I agree, Ethics is not A word to use in hunting. What is ethical about killing or not killing A animal. Its more about Lawful, moral...

I posted this in another thread for the same reason... you guys confuse me.


From Merriam-Webster.com:

Ethics:
a: a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values


Morals:
a: moral practices or teachings : modes of conduct b: ethics


Same:
1 a: resembling in every relevant respect b: conforming in every respect —used with as
2 a: being one without addition, change, or discontinuance : identical b: being the one under discussion or already referred to
3: corresponding so closely as to be indistinguishable

 

[fisherman66]

Morals define personal character, while ethics stress a social system in which those morals are applied. In other words, ethics examines a very broad "for the benefit of the society" brushstroke. Morals are a more personal.

 

[hogdogs]

But integrity is what you do when no one is lookin' Here is my redneck way of looking at it...
In Greenwich Village it is considered un-ethical to hunt the very same critters that I morally hunt in the woods during legal seasons in the woods...
Brent

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Having a stable population of hogs in the swamp sounds like a good longtern proposition to me

With more than a half million hogs in Florida, the population is somewhat stable in terms of numbers, but not stable in terms of geography. They will move into new habitats as needed or as old habitats are destroyed (often by their own activities).

Hog population in the swamp is not anywhere near the point that they constitute a nusense. Fact is they are, at least in the opinion of at least a few folks I know, a valuable asset in the woods.

Funny how you would think that hogs are a good thing because you want to hunt them, but then again, you are a user and not an owner of the land. There is a reason where there is a no size limit and no bag limit on hogs at Twelve Mile Swamp. Having a population of hogs in the swamp is like having a little cancer. The doctors that profit from the treatment of it are okay with it, but it doesn't do the body any good at all.

I don't know any biologists or ecologists who feel or who can justify feral hogs as a valuable asset to the woods.

From http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/UW220

Problems
The opportunistic and omnivorous tendencies of wild hogs lead to many conflicts with people and wildlife. With hard mast as their preferred food, hogs directly compete with many popular game animals, including deer, turkeys, and squirrels. This competition is considered to be a significant limiting factor for populations of these native species in some areas. In addition, hogs may consume the nests and young of many reptiles (including sea turtles; Figure 11), ground-nesting birds, and mammals (including deer fawns). Wild hogs have also been known to consume young domestic livestock including poultry, lambs, and goats.

Figure 11. Hogs often prey upon the nests of ground nesting wildlife, including sea turtles.
When natural foods are scarce or inaccessible, hogs will readily forage on almost any agricultural crop and feed set out for livestock and wildlife, leading to significant losses. Wild hogs will also feed on tree seeds and seedlings, causing significant damage in forests, orchards, and plantations. In Florida and the Southeast, this may be a serious problem in regenerating important long-leaf pine forests.

In addition to the effects of consuming, knocking down, rubbing, and trampling large amounts of native vegetation and crops, the rooting behavior of hogs also causes significant damage. Rooting destabilizes the soil surface, which can lead to erosion and exotic plant establishment; uproots or weakens native vegetation; and damages lawns, dikes, roads, trails, and recreation areas (Figure 12). They have also been known to damage fences and other structures. Wallowing behavior also destroys small ponds and stream banks, and can lead to declines in water quality.

Figure 12. Rooting by wild hogs in search of buried foods can lead to erosion and water quality problems, as well as the destruction of native vegetation around ponds and in the forest.
Another area of concern is the potential for wild hogs to serve as reservoirs for many diseases and parasites that may affect native wildlife, livestock, and people. Hogs have been known to carry dozens of such pathogens, including cholera, psuedorabies, brucellosis, tuberculosis, salmonellosis, anthrax, ticks, fleas, lice, and various flukes and worms. Although not considered a serious threat to people, millions of dollars are spent each year to keep livestock safe from such problems.

Finally, hogs can be dangerous. Although wild hogs prefer to run and escape danger, if injured, cornered, or with young they can become aggressive, move with great speed, and cause serious injury (mainly with their tusks; Figure 13).

Yep, sounds like a valuable asset to me.

 

[bswiv]

How we got here from there I'm not sure.................

Do know this much, wild hogs have been a part of the Florida ecosystem for at least 400 years if not longer. And to the Eurasian continent they are native to it for how long?

Is it the hogs, or the NUMBER of hogs that is the problem? Seems to me I remember reading that a number of years back the state of Pa. extended the deer season at the behest of the insurance industry due to the number of accidents involving deer.

And I know full well that in many instances farmers can get special permits to harvest deer due to the "damage" they cause. And I know from having seen the Wakula Unit of the St. Marks WMA back about 30 years ago, there was a visable brouse line in the woods indicating just how far up the deer could reach!, that when deer populations get our of wack in a forrest setting they can cause problems there too.

So do we toss the deer into the same boat as the hog once the numbers go up?

And this question too. Should we not weigh the economic benifit of a wild hog population into the equasion? Same as with deer, folks spend $ hunting them so is there no a up side?

Finally I do know that a lot of "deer" hunters have a certian disdain for a wild hog. They see him as something of a lesser creature and those of us who would rather slip a swamp after a hog and then eat the meat from said hog, well it seems that we just aren't quite right in the head.

I don't see it in that way.

Seems to me that unless the hog population has gotten to the same point as the afore mentioned deer population over in St. Marks had all those years ago, there is no good reason not to enjoy the fact that they provide another hunting opportunity.

And once again, in the Twelve Mile Swamp RUA the hog population is not nearly so large as to constitute in any way a danger to the enviroment.

 

[hogdogs]

It is the introduction of a non native animal that is superior in life skills over the native species that is the problem...
But feel free to utilize the woods how you see fit.
If african lions were introduced and could flourish at the expense of native species would that be acceptable? That is how I have put it to a neighbor of a hog eradication client more than once when they say "But the hogs aren't doing much damage over all..."
Brent

 

[bswiv]

That is a thought provoking take on it...........

You'll forgive us I hope if we continue to enjoy hunting them, and eating them, and even moreso if we hope for at least a fair population to continue to prosper in the woods we wander. I don't think we'll be in bad, or small, company in that sentament.

At the same time I do understand the necessity for controls, and in certian instances extream measures, on their populations in agricultrial areas and in urban settings.

 

[hogdogs]

bswiv, Have no worries on my part! What would I do with this yard full of dogs if all the feral hogs were gone... Like I said... the woods and their use by you and yours is up to you how you use them... good bad right or wrong...
Brent

 

[Nnobby45]

Nice story BSWIV, sometimes it's about how we personally feel about things rather than what we might be justified in doing.

When my neice was 13, she drew a cow elk tag in E. Nevada (depredation tag). After three or four days her dad finally got her into position when a nice cow came by. Katie drew her bow, tracked it, but never released the arrow.

Her dad asked her why she hadn't shot and she said, "it had a calf, dad". Her dad pointed out that it was a yearling old enough to fend for itself, but she'd made her decision. Nothing more was said.

 

[sureshots]

Good Luck??

Earlier this season my Brother shot A ten point Buck. The Buck was in the process of mating A large Doe. He also shot the Doe. Do you consider this Ethical, Unethical or just plain good Luck?

 

[hogdogs]

SS, I call that a DOUBLE!!!
Brent

 

[sureshots]

Hotdogs

I think we see "Eye to EYE"

 

[fisherman66]

I'd call it "exactly how I'd like to go".

But at least let me finish.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

You'll forgive us I hope if we continue to enjoy hunting them,

See, therein was the problem. Louann didn't shoot one when she had the chance.

Enjoy hunting them, but don't pass up shots out of some misguided view that the population needs conservation. They don't. That is why there is no bag limit on them.

 

[hogdogs]

DNS, the hunt and the shot/kill are unrelated... In this case louann hunted as a supreme predator and opted not to take that quarry... much the same as a cougar may follow a human but never pounce... But lord If I find out I am bein' hunted by a large cat I am gonna flat crap my pants then decide what next...for me it is the whole predator/prey issue for all of us... sometimes yer the bug and sometimes you are the windshield... some of my most fond hunting memories is opting out of a shot and "spooking" my quarry instead to see the look on their face when they realize they were about to be TOAST...
Brent

 

[Dearhunter61]

I respect your wife's decision not to kill the sow but I do agree with the other posters here. Hogs are pests. There is not a "season" for hunting hogs here is Texas because they are not considered a "Game" animal. They are considered a pest and that is being polite. I would not feel one bit quilty about killing one and leaving it for the yotes or buzzards. They need to eat too!

The place I hunt we have been given instructions to kill any and all hogs that we can because they have done great damage to the ranchers pastures which negatively impacts his cattle. And if we do not want them? Leave'em lay.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

hogdogs, I don't know about the notion of being a 'supreme predator' because she opted not to shoot an invasive pest species. I see it more of a "I don't have to kill because I am not hungry" view, just like with mountain lions. In that regard, most predators are supreme.

I think you may have missed the point. It really isn't about Louann. It is about the justification of not taking the shot as being evidence of demonstrated hunting ethics under the guise of hog conservation that is the problem. Its like not killing non-native, invasive formosan termites in your home and calling it ethical as you are engaged in termite conservation.

 

[texfar]

Good story. I have nothing bad to say about other folk's morals. I have my own too.
The lease I have hunted near Del Rio is so loaded with hogs that the farmers/ranchers loose thousands every year to hogs. I run traps as well as hunt. When I have popped a sow, intentionally, with or without piglets (that I can see), I will routinly get some or all the piglets in one of the traps that night or not. Yum, Yum. I have no remorse personally after seeing Dave working his #$S off prepping and planting a field of several hundred acres of alfalfa, then watch it desimated ,down the road,in a few nights by 40-50 hogs while in route destroyed fencing. It is his lively hood and one of the reasons he allowed me to hunt the ranch in the first place. Hogs/yotes priority, everything else next. Above posts are correct!! You can never wipe them out. They be smart too and breed like rabbits.

Good for your Daughter though! She is the one that has to sleep at night with what she has done. Once killed.......its killed.