Hunting ethics...changing with the times?
- Thread starter Ankeny
- Start date
thats the same here.I know alot of ppl in my area that hunt,deer,elk mostlyand it seems when i see these guys getting ready or talkin about it one thing they never do is go to the range or out in the whops and practice.Instead the go purchase one of these super magnums and expect that if they see a animal all they have to do is put the crosshairs on it and pull the trigger and the bullet will do the rest.Well I dont know but I am sure that a deer cant tell if hes been hit by a 243 or a 300 ultra mag so if he knew would he drop faster with the ultramag or the 243.? lol ive hunted with a 300 win and a 7mm stw and I hunt now with a 308. win and I havemade 4 one shot kills with it, and I give all my friends and ppl I know crap about know your rifle.Im only 33 but I got my ethics from my father and my grandfather I believe alot of people come into the sport on their own and have to FIND their own ethics Im only scared by the time this ahppens it will be too late. SEMPER FI brothers
BluRidgDav
New member
There have always been "slob hunters", and probably always will be, but, the majority of hunters that I meet, in the woods, are good, decent fellas who are out enjoying the great outdoors. That being said, I will agree that the "ethics" of all hunters, as a group, has slid a notch or two over the last 30 years that I've been hunting. I think it can be attributed to two things: access to land and "the equipment race".
Access:
The number of hunting licenses sold has declined, but not as much as available hunting land has deminished. More hunters per acre, means more competion, and more competion leads to behavior that probably wouldn't have surfaced otherwise. This begets angry land-owners, and more "posted" land. It's an accelerating downward spiral. What a shame, because there are now more deer (for example) than ever before, to go around.
Equipment:
Almost everybody wants new gadgets. The less time you have to hunt, the more gadgets you need, right? Gotta keep up with the "competition", right? I guess I drew my own "line in the sand" about the time they brought out GPS (Global Positioning System). Do you really need 12 satelites, IN OUTER SPACE !!!, to help you get your game?!?!?! And don't get me started on "game feeders" and "in-line" muzzleloaders!!!
Hunting is an anachronism.
We do it to remain connected to the natural side of the world.
We do it to remain connected to our ancestors and to our kids.
As a group, hunters need to withdraw from the competition and emphasize the "hunt" in hunting. You just might find something.
BRD.
Access:
The number of hunting licenses sold has declined, but not as much as available hunting land has deminished. More hunters per acre, means more competion, and more competion leads to behavior that probably wouldn't have surfaced otherwise. This begets angry land-owners, and more "posted" land. It's an accelerating downward spiral. What a shame, because there are now more deer (for example) than ever before, to go around.
Equipment:
Almost everybody wants new gadgets. The less time you have to hunt, the more gadgets you need, right? Gotta keep up with the "competition", right? I guess I drew my own "line in the sand" about the time they brought out GPS (Global Positioning System). Do you really need 12 satelites, IN OUTER SPACE !!!, to help you get your game?!?!?! And don't get me started on "game feeders" and "in-line" muzzleloaders!!!
Hunting is an anachronism.
We do it to remain connected to the natural side of the world.
We do it to remain connected to our ancestors and to our kids.
As a group, hunters need to withdraw from the competition and emphasize the "hunt" in hunting. You just might find something.
BRD.
Keith Rogan
New member
I think Blue Ridge Dave hit the nail on the head here. The common factor is access to good hunting land, or lack of. Another factor is simple time. People don't have the time to make a leisurely two week hunt during season any more. Another form of "access".
These factors turn hunting from a way of life into a competitive "sport". I don't think hunting is a sport, do you?
I will point out that I see very few of the type of shenanigans you guys describe up here in Alaska. It happens I'm sure, but for the most part people have access to plenty of good hunting land along with long seasons so, there's simply no pressure to "get it while you can". The worst I ever saw was in Colorado in the mid 80's - short seasons, bucks only, 3 point minimum... bad scene!
I think most hunters are ethical. I think the squeeze of poor access to land and not much time to hunt push some people to be slobs. I don't know what the solution is.
These factors turn hunting from a way of life into a competitive "sport". I don't think hunting is a sport, do you?
I will point out that I see very few of the type of shenanigans you guys describe up here in Alaska. It happens I'm sure, but for the most part people have access to plenty of good hunting land along with long seasons so, there's simply no pressure to "get it while you can". The worst I ever saw was in Colorado in the mid 80's - short seasons, bucks only, 3 point minimum... bad scene!
I think most hunters are ethical. I think the squeeze of poor access to land and not much time to hunt push some people to be slobs. I don't know what the solution is.
Great post
I'm old school and was taught bye my father, I have seen a lot of crazy things in my life hunting in the field, I can't get over these ATVs riding all over the woods like they are at disneyland now a days, while us hunters are trying to hunt from our stands and still stalk trails,this was unheard of back even 10 years ago, I don't get it, I am 40 years old and have no problem still stalking to my stand and will till I can't anymore, I don't mind if you shoot a deer and need to get it out with the ATV or drive it to where your hunting area is and park it, but this driving all over the woods is crazy and not ethical at all, you can't hunt from it or have a loaded rifle on it, I call them road huntersI understand there is situations that you need a ATV to get to the area your hunting due to the distance is to far to walk, I was taught if you where still stalking and came across another hunter at his stand to wave to make the hunter aware of me and continue away from the hunter to have his own space, there is plenty of woods to hunt, not to have to take a stand right next to the other hunter, I have seen this many times, I have seen people pushing into each other and shooting at deer on the hoof not being certain what is behind the deer, this is also not ethical or safe, I have also seen hunters drinking beer in the field, I could not believe my eye's, I was in my tree stand a few hunters pushed through a small area, one had a backpack and pulled out a sixpack and handed them out to the other hunters, I thought to my self this is crazy, I have notice litter in the field, like candy wrappers etc...left on the ground, this is terrible, I pick it up and put in my pocket to throw away even though its not mine, we need to preserve our lands, this is some reasons why people post there lands, This is what takes away from the good ethical hunters that play it bye the rules. Don't get me wrong I have met and hunted with many good ethical hunters in my life as well, to bad we could not weed out the bad ones,Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
I'm old school and was taught bye my father, I have seen a lot of crazy things in my life hunting in the field, I can't get over these ATVs riding all over the woods like they are at disneyland now a days, while us hunters are trying to hunt from our stands and still stalk trails,this was unheard of back even 10 years ago, I don't get it, I am 40 years old and have no problem still stalking to my stand and will till I can't anymore, I don't mind if you shoot a deer and need to get it out with the ATV or drive it to where your hunting area is and park it, but this driving all over the woods is crazy and not ethical at all, you can't hunt from it or have a loaded rifle on it, I call them road huntersI understand there is situations that you need a ATV to get to the area your hunting due to the distance is to far to walk, I was taught if you where still stalking and came across another hunter at his stand to wave to make the hunter aware of me and continue away from the hunter to have his own space, there is plenty of woods to hunt, not to have to take a stand right next to the other hunter, I have seen this many times, I have seen people pushing into each other and shooting at deer on the hoof not being certain what is behind the deer, this is also not ethical or safe, I have also seen hunters drinking beer in the field, I could not believe my eye's, I was in my tree stand a few hunters pushed through a small area, one had a backpack and pulled out a sixpack and handed them out to the other hunters, I thought to my self this is crazy, I have notice litter in the field, like candy wrappers etc...left on the ground, this is terrible, I pick it up and put in my pocket to throw away even though its not mine, we need to preserve our lands, this is some reasons why people post there lands, This is what takes away from the good ethical hunters that play it bye the rules. Don't get me wrong I have met and hunted with many good ethical hunters in my life as well, to bad we could not weed out the bad ones,Aim small hit small. RAMbo.Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
The phrasing might well be "just Art's", but the concept has been around a long, long time. Always feel free to use any line I happen to pop off with, if it's of interest. Attribution on the order of, "An old hunter said..."
, Art
, ArtI thought I would add a few observations.
First, in Texas it is always a felony to trespass with a firearm. Doesn't always seem to help and a lot of people are very surprised to have their weapon confiscated and to not be allowed to legally own a firearm EVER again. Yet some slobs STILL risk it. If someone is so unconcerned about consequencees to risk losing their right to bear arms, they certainly wouldn't have any trouble with unethically hunting.
Second, just saw a large doe taken this weekend. 100-120 yard shot, 30-06 150gr. Good heart/lung shot. Knocked the doe back about three feet and splattered red stuff for about twenty feet back. This was a big doe (it took two of us to pull her up over a pulley) and we both thought that it was too much gun. Still can't imagine one of them big mags on a hill country deer.
BTW, the guy who shot this doe did it because he said she was old. I was skeptical of his claim that he could tell at first light at 100yds that this was an old doe. But when we got to her and checked her teeth she only had two front lower teeth left. I'll never doubt his call again. I find that to be highly ethical. He took the shot that most wouldn't (we have a high buck to doe ratio in our neck of the woods) and saved that doe from starving to death.
Nannuk
First, in Texas it is always a felony to trespass with a firearm. Doesn't always seem to help and a lot of people are very surprised to have their weapon confiscated and to not be allowed to legally own a firearm EVER again. Yet some slobs STILL risk it. If someone is so unconcerned about consequencees to risk losing their right to bear arms, they certainly wouldn't have any trouble with unethically hunting.
Second, just saw a large doe taken this weekend. 100-120 yard shot, 30-06 150gr. Good heart/lung shot. Knocked the doe back about three feet and splattered red stuff for about twenty feet back. This was a big doe (it took two of us to pull her up over a pulley) and we both thought that it was too much gun. Still can't imagine one of them big mags on a hill country deer.
BTW, the guy who shot this doe did it because he said she was old. I was skeptical of his claim that he could tell at first light at 100yds that this was an old doe. But when we got to her and checked her teeth she only had two front lower teeth left. I'll never doubt his call again. I find that to be highly ethical. He took the shot that most wouldn't (we have a high buck to doe ratio in our neck of the woods) and saved that doe from starving to death.
Nannuk
Smokey Joe
New member
Hunter ethics
Boy, from all these replies it's clear that the inhabitants of TFL, at least, deplore the slob hunter and do what they can to eliminate him. In my state, the year we required all new licensees to pass a hunter safety course, the graph for hunting accidents fell off the table,so to speak. The course includes a section on ethics, also. I hope it helps. I think it does, but that's harder to demonstrate than the accident rate.
Depends on the instructor, I guess, and whether that's a state-certified instructor, Uncle, Grandpa, or your old man, doesn't matter. As the twig is bent...
Try to keep it positive when dealing with strangers you encounter in the field. If they're behaving like idiots they need to be told, but they have to be sold, not yelled at or scolded. (Obviously if they're drunk or dangerously trespassing, etc, you can't use a light hand, but you won't make any friends, either. That's a no-win situation.)
We who love hunting and the outdoor life will only keep it by generously sharing it at every opportunity. That bore-sighted slob hunter just might turn into a decent stalker and tracker someday, but only if someoneÑyou, maybe?Ñmakes the effort to show him what he's missing.
And help the guys at the rangeÑThey're generally grateful for helpful advice, respectfully and knowledgeably given.
Boy, from all these replies it's clear that the inhabitants of TFL, at least, deplore the slob hunter and do what they can to eliminate him. In my state, the year we required all new licensees to pass a hunter safety course, the graph for hunting accidents fell off the table,so to speak. The course includes a section on ethics, also. I hope it helps. I think it does, but that's harder to demonstrate than the accident rate.
Depends on the instructor, I guess, and whether that's a state-certified instructor, Uncle, Grandpa, or your old man, doesn't matter. As the twig is bent...
Try to keep it positive when dealing with strangers you encounter in the field. If they're behaving like idiots they need to be told, but they have to be sold, not yelled at or scolded. (Obviously if they're drunk or dangerously trespassing, etc, you can't use a light hand, but you won't make any friends, either. That's a no-win situation.)
We who love hunting and the outdoor life will only keep it by generously sharing it at every opportunity. That bore-sighted slob hunter just might turn into a decent stalker and tracker someday, but only if someoneÑyou, maybe?Ñmakes the effort to show him what he's missing.
And help the guys at the rangeÑThey're generally grateful for helpful advice, respectfully and knowledgeably given.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Rotten apples and barrels. I imagine that the vast majority of all hunters deplore the slobs. Problem is, a few slobs go a long way...
I think one facet of the problem is ignorance. Just as a lot of folks, today, weren't raised to understand courtesy and politeness, so are many unaware of hunting ethics.
Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh was commenting about some guy who's making a ton of money teaching NFL draftees how to dress and act at business interviews with team officials. His question--and mine--is, "How is it they don't know how to dress or act?" Where were their parents? Why did this never enter their conciousness in elementary school?
Art
I think one facet of the problem is ignorance. Just as a lot of folks, today, weren't raised to understand courtesy and politeness, so are many unaware of hunting ethics.
Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh was commenting about some guy who's making a ton of money teaching NFL draftees how to dress and act at business interviews with team officials. His question--and mine--is, "How is it they don't know how to dress or act?" Where were their parents? Why did this never enter their conciousness in elementary school?
Art
Great thread.
This topic reminds me a lot of the phrase:
"You don't see anymore the same four seasons we used to have in the good old days"....
And as in the case of this saying, there is a lot of truth in it - or is there?
Instinctively, I would have to agree that yes, today's hunting ethics would have to be slipping down, along the same slope as our morals as a society.
But when I really think about it, I also know that today there is quite a bit more of a conscious effort by "good" hunters to conserve wild habitats, to manage game more efficiently and to pick cartridges that are suitable for the quarry.
So, to me, the question is: is the "conscious effort" made by good hunters enough to offset the sloppier behavior of some?
===
As a hunter (or a living human being, for that matter) I haven't been around long enough to have witnessed any trends first-hand. The "good old days" that I can remember as a budding hunter are not any further away than a quarter century. So I'll defer to men of better vintage than me (such as Art ) to answer the question of whether times have indeed deteriorated.
As a devotee of early 20-C. hunting literature, I can't help but notice that the writers and sportsmen of yore had no compunction about letting us know about behaviors that our writers today would definitely be ashamed of admitting.
This includes losing game, firing wildly with open-sighted rifles at game several hundred yards off (read Roosevelt's African Game Trails!), using inadequately-light rifles against large game, killing large quantities of one species regardless of rarity, etc.
Also, today our youth is initiated to hunting through formal classes designed to instill ethics and safety in the new generations. This standardized training was not in place until a few years ago, and back then we had to rely on the spirit of sportsmanship of the individual "mentors". I see this too as a step in the right direction.
All in all, I think that the collective conscience of "real" hunters is better today than it ever was. Sloppy behavior enrages me, but at least I am happy to see that the sane side of conservationism has gone a long way to ensure that the environment in which we hunt will be there 50 years from now.
This topic reminds me a lot of the phrase:
"You don't see anymore the same four seasons we used to have in the good old days"....
And as in the case of this saying, there is a lot of truth in it - or is there?
Instinctively, I would have to agree that yes, today's hunting ethics would have to be slipping down, along the same slope as our morals as a society.
But when I really think about it, I also know that today there is quite a bit more of a conscious effort by "good" hunters to conserve wild habitats, to manage game more efficiently and to pick cartridges that are suitable for the quarry.
So, to me, the question is: is the "conscious effort" made by good hunters enough to offset the sloppier behavior of some?
===
As a hunter (or a living human being, for that matter) I haven't been around long enough to have witnessed any trends first-hand. The "good old days" that I can remember as a budding hunter are not any further away than a quarter century. So I'll defer to men of better vintage than me (such as Art
) to answer the question of whether times have indeed deteriorated.As a devotee of early 20-C. hunting literature, I can't help but notice that the writers and sportsmen of yore had no compunction about letting us know about behaviors that our writers today would definitely be ashamed of admitting.
This includes losing game, firing wildly with open-sighted rifles at game several hundred yards off (read Roosevelt's African Game Trails!), using inadequately-light rifles against large game, killing large quantities of one species regardless of rarity, etc.
Also, today our youth is initiated to hunting through formal classes designed to instill ethics and safety in the new generations. This standardized training was not in place until a few years ago, and back then we had to rely on the spirit of sportsmanship of the individual "mentors". I see this too as a step in the right direction.
All in all, I think that the collective conscience of "real" hunters is better today than it ever was. Sloppy behavior enrages me, but at least I am happy to see that the sane side of conservationism has gone a long way to ensure that the environment in which we hunt will be there 50 years from now.
Nannuk -
"First, in Texas it is always a felony to trespass with a firearm."
PMed ya about this one yesterday, friend, and have not heard back from, so gonna go ahead and comment here.
Criminal trespass in Texas is a Class B misdeameanor. When a firearm is present, it can kick it up to a Class A. Some other circumstances might generate a felony charge, but not simply what ya stated above. Either a Class A or B misdeameanor though can make it a very long wait for anyone wanting to get a Texas CHL ... If a felony anytime, anywhere, forget it.
"First, in Texas it is always a felony to trespass with a firearm."
PMed ya about this one yesterday, friend, and have not heard back from, so gonna go ahead and comment here.
Criminal trespass in Texas is a Class B misdeameanor. When a firearm is present, it can kick it up to a Class A. Some other circumstances might generate a felony charge, but not simply what ya stated above. Either a Class A or B misdeameanor though can make it a very long wait for anyone wanting to get a Texas CHL ... If a felony anytime, anywhere, forget it.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Up until the very early 1900s, in many areas game was regaded as limitless. (Resembles the view of the oceans, until the 1960s/1970s.) Market shooting in Chesapeake Bay, for instance, with monster-sized shotguns, with the ducks and geese sold to hotels. Same for Passenger Pigeons, with nets and sticks used at night to harvest. Or the official U.S. Government policy against the bison.
At any rate, the average person doesn't pay much attention to conserving that which appears limitless. Sort of like payday party-people: "My round; I got plenty money!"
"Suddenly" there were few deer or wild turkey. Hunters were the first to call for limits and seasons. Then, such things as the Dingell/Johnson and Pittman/Robinson taxes on sporting equipment to fund wildlife study/restoration efforts. We've had the rise of such as Ducks Unlimited.
While there have always been "fair chase" folks around, the idea became stronger with the efforts at restoration of game species. It became codified into law or regulation, including "don't hunt from a vehicle", etc.
The wheel turns. In many areas deer are regarded as rats with hooves. Too many geese...Not everywhere, of course, but some places.
But there have been rational, credible studies of people's behavior around the U.S., and there appears to be a lessening of ethics and politeness/courtesy. I note that in general it is mostly within the larger cities; IMO it's tied to the frustrations of modern life and the hassles of dealing with large crowds.
Art
At any rate, the average person doesn't pay much attention to conserving that which appears limitless. Sort of like payday party-people: "My round; I got plenty money!"
"Suddenly" there were few deer or wild turkey. Hunters were the first to call for limits and seasons. Then, such things as the Dingell/Johnson and Pittman/Robinson taxes on sporting equipment to fund wildlife study/restoration efforts. We've had the rise of such as Ducks Unlimited.
While there have always been "fair chase" folks around, the idea became stronger with the efforts at restoration of game species. It became codified into law or regulation, including "don't hunt from a vehicle", etc.
The wheel turns. In many areas deer are regarded as rats with hooves. Too many geese...Not everywhere, of course, but some places.
But there have been rational, credible studies of people's behavior around the U.S., and there appears to be a lessening of ethics and politeness/courtesy. I note that in general it is mostly within the larger cities; IMO it's tied to the frustrations of modern life and the hassles of dealing with large crowds.
Art
Greybeard--Sorry, I was out of town for a few days. Just got your PM today.
I did error in my statement. Trespassing with a firearm is an automatic Class A. Poaching on the other hand is a felony. Not sure if that applies to "attempted" poaching (ie not actually having felled anything, but tresspassing with intent to poach). Texas land owners pushed for the law about a dozen years ago thinking that it would cut down on tresspassers. Did not have desired effect. Another instance of only the lawful follow laws.
Oncec again, sorry for the misstatement.
Nannuk
I did error in my statement. Trespassing with a firearm is an automatic Class A. Poaching on the other hand is a felony. Not sure if that applies to "attempted" poaching (ie not actually having felled anything, but tresspassing with intent to poach). Texas land owners pushed for the law about a dozen years ago thinking that it would cut down on tresspassers. Did not have desired effect. Another instance of only the lawful follow laws.
Oncec again, sorry for the misstatement.
Nannuk
I completely and totally agree
The hunting shows are the worst. I recently watched one where bow hunters were hunting over a tripod feeder. The deer were milling around like cattle. I was throughly disgusted.
The folks who use the long range rifles also get me. They may be great shots, but taking a deer or whatever at 300 yards ain't huntin' to me.
We're restricted to using shotguns (for deer) here in NYS. I often see the guys with the semiautos shoot at a deer 5 times. The first one goes "sort of" toward the deer the next 4 are up in the air. They are so worried about the second thru fifth shots that they forget about the first. The philosophy seems to be "empty the gun".
The sportsman's challenge - 1 shot 1 kill.
The hunting shows are the worst. I recently watched one where bow hunters were hunting over a tripod feeder. The deer were milling around like cattle. I was throughly disgusted.
The folks who use the long range rifles also get me. They may be great shots, but taking a deer or whatever at 300 yards ain't huntin' to me.
We're restricted to using shotguns (for deer) here in NYS. I often see the guys with the semiautos shoot at a deer 5 times. The first one goes "sort of" toward the deer the next 4 are up in the air. They are so worried about the second thru fifth shots that they forget about the first. The philosophy seems to be "empty the gun".
The sportsman's challenge - 1 shot 1 kill.
I'm sorry to say I saw a lot of this behaviour 25 years ago in Alberta, so maybe not as much has changed as we fear.
Best cure even then was to get wayyyy out there, as in drive a couple days away from any kind of city, then hike in a good bit. There you would find peace and quiet and good hunting.
Then, as now, "The Slobs" aren't too big on hiking.
Best cure even then was to get wayyyy out there, as in drive a couple days away from any kind of city, then hike in a good bit. There you would find peace and quiet and good hunting.
Then, as now, "The Slobs" aren't too big on hiking.
Great
I agree with everyone else, this is a great post, as far as it helps to get this stuff off our chest. But, it is also turning into a depressing thread.
A few years ago, Washington shifted from a Hunters Safety Class, to a Hunters Education Class, that my wife just attended. One whole three hour class went to discuss ethics. Things like...would you take a shot the last day of the season that you wouldn't take at the beggining of the season. The only thing my wife came home saying that I didn't agree with was that the instructors were putting out that Coyote hunting is Unethical, because you most people aren't going to eat them. I'm not sure I agree with that.
It's gotten so that opening day of Elk season around here sounds like WWIII. And, more than once, after missing, I have heard with my own ears: 'Well, I thought I saw something'
It's one reason my buddy shifted to muzzle loader season.
Toren does have a point. I work with some folks who probably fit into the 'Slob Hunter' catagory. The kind that stop hunting to shoot at street signs with their pistols, and if there is an Elk more than 100 yards off a road, it is safe from them...
And, like BlueRidgeDave said, lack of access just makes it worse for those of us that consider ourselves 'good' hunters. It's one reason I'm starting to look for land for sale in Eastern Washington.
So...now that we all agree a problem exists...what is there we can do about it?
greg
I agree with everyone else, this is a great post, as far as it helps to get this stuff off our chest. But, it is also turning into a depressing thread.
A few years ago, Washington shifted from a Hunters Safety Class, to a Hunters Education Class, that my wife just attended. One whole three hour class went to discuss ethics. Things like...would you take a shot the last day of the season that you wouldn't take at the beggining of the season. The only thing my wife came home saying that I didn't agree with was that the instructors were putting out that Coyote hunting is Unethical, because you most people aren't going to eat them. I'm not sure I agree with that.
It's gotten so that opening day of Elk season around here sounds like WWIII. And, more than once, after missing, I have heard with my own ears: 'Well, I thought I saw something'
It's one reason my buddy shifted to muzzle loader season.
Toren does have a point. I work with some folks who probably fit into the 'Slob Hunter' catagory. The kind that stop hunting to shoot at street signs with their pistols, and if there is an Elk more than 100 yards off a road, it is safe from them...
And, like BlueRidgeDave said, lack of access just makes it worse for those of us that consider ourselves 'good' hunters. It's one reason I'm starting to look for land for sale in Eastern Washington.
So...now that we all agree a problem exists...what is there we can do about it?
greg
myopicmouse
New member
when shooting small game I always aim for the head, if I screw up on the wind then the shot will either be a clean kill or a clean miss, yea it's a very small target to hit (especially bird heads....the size of peas) but hey, I'm just that good 
I saw on TV these two guys hunted together, and when there was something to shoot they'd go 1-2-3 and both shoot at the same time to hit the animal with two bullets - naturally that cause bad shooting, and snatching at triggers....that annoyed me somewhat, it give hunting a bad name if these fagmos act like that.
I saw on TV these two guys hunted together, and when there was something to shoot they'd go 1-2-3 and both shoot at the same time to hit the animal with two bullets - naturally that cause bad shooting, and snatching at triggers....that annoyed me somewhat, it give hunting a bad name if these fagmos act like that.
Mannlicher
New member
Ankeny,
My thoughts are that a lot of hunters nowdays,don't know how to hunt. While the magazines and BBS are full of technical info on loads, rifles, bullets, there is virtually nothing out there on woodscraft, or tactics.
The preponderance of the type of information available often gives a clue to what folks are interested in. The way I look at it, all the emphasis is on equipment now, not ability to spot game, track game, or cleanly kill game. Most of the guys you talk to have no clue at all as to Whitetail anatomy, or how to clean one. Sad.
My thoughts are that a lot of hunters nowdays,don't know how to hunt. While the magazines and BBS are full of technical info on loads, rifles, bullets, there is virtually nothing out there on woodscraft, or tactics.
The preponderance of the type of information available often gives a clue to what folks are interested in. The way I look at it, all the emphasis is on equipment now, not ability to spot game, track game, or cleanly kill game. Most of the guys you talk to have no clue at all as to Whitetail anatomy, or how to clean one. Sad.
Guess I'll jump in with a few of my horror stories. First though, let me state that I am an Arizona game and Fish certified Hunter Education, ceritfied bowhunter, and muzzlerloader instructor as well. Most fun I've ever had teaching those kids and adults that come the right and safe way to do things.
Anyway, three years ago on a cow elk hunt, I spot a herd working it's way up into a stand of trees. Well, the wind is right, they don't knoe I'm around so I start my stalk. All of a sudden, four slobs on ATVs go roaring past me at full throttle headed for the elk. After what sounds like a small short gun battle, they come out with three cow elk. As they pass my wife and I, the look at us and smirk. I swear. I was never so tempted to shoot three people in my life. Now this is the good part of all this. The next day, I do a stalk and am able to shoot my cow elk. I tagged the animal and hustled back to my truck to get my wife to help me gut and quarter the animal. We get back to where my tagged elk was, and there is a gut pile, my tag torn into shreds on the ground and two thieves on ATVs heading off into the distance. On the back of their machines was each half of my elk. God was on their side as they were well out of range. I spent the rest of that day trying to contact the game warden to report the theft and try to be reissued a new tag. The next morning, we said to hell with it as it was the last day, no tag, so we packed up and went home.
Needless to say, I have bad feelings about the use of ATVs.
Paul B.
Anyway, three years ago on a cow elk hunt, I spot a herd working it's way up into a stand of trees. Well, the wind is right, they don't knoe I'm around so I start my stalk. All of a sudden, four slobs on ATVs go roaring past me at full throttle headed for the elk. After what sounds like a small short gun battle, they come out with three cow elk. As they pass my wife and I, the look at us and smirk. I swear. I was never so tempted to shoot three people in my life. Now this is the good part of all this. The next day, I do a stalk and am able to shoot my cow elk. I tagged the animal and hustled back to my truck to get my wife to help me gut and quarter the animal. We get back to where my tagged elk was, and there is a gut pile, my tag torn into shreds on the ground and two thieves on ATVs heading off into the distance. On the back of their machines was each half of my elk. God was on their side as they were well out of range. I spent the rest of that day trying to contact the game warden to report the theft and try to be reissued a new tag. The next morning, we said to hell with it as it was the last day, no tag, so we packed up and went home.
Needless to say, I have bad feelings about the use of ATVs.
Paul B.